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Originally Posted by Sink r8
(Post 1648666)
CE,
Was this discussed? Note: If, due to late operations, a pilot does not receive such a sleep opportunity, the Company will: 1) schedule such a pilot to fly his originally scheduled flight segment after receiving a sleep opportunity of at least three hours, or 2) provide such a pilot a break in duty immediately after his first flight segment. Seems to me that they're saying you can go to less than 3 hours sleep, as long as you get a break in duty after your first flight segment. Which is your go-home leg. Which was already guaranteed to be followed by a break in duty. If I'm reading this right, there is NO protection at all for IROPS or delay, and no provision for the pilot to make the call to delay, except to call in fatigued. Here's my understanding-- The language you quoted is the protection for IROPS or delay. The split duty sleep opportunity is a different thing than a "break in duty". That's why they were called CDO -- "continuous duty overnight". They can never reduce the three hours of sleep opportunity. You either get your 3 hour sleep and the outbound leg is delayed or you get a legal break in duty and you are not on a SDP any more. Keep in mind these SDPs can never go past 14 hours. (scheduled for 12) If you hit 14 hours, the SDP is over. You must be given a legal break. |
I cannot believe we are even having this debate. This TA is a joke. I had high hopes for MD, but if he thinks this is a gem, well.........we are in trouble (sigh)
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Originally Posted by fartboxflyer
(Post 1648695)
I cannot believe we are even having this debate. This TA is a joke. I had high hopes for MD, but if he thinks this is a gem, well.........we are in trouble (sigh)
Carl |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1648677)
Then there should be no problem with waiting until that side letter is negotiated and brought to our reps. The two documents need to be signed concurrently...not separately.
Carl That is the plan. The pay restoration is a side letter. Its not really a part of the contract. The two will be separate but simultaneous. |
Originally Posted by Check Essential
(Post 1648692)
Keep in mind these SDPs can never go past 14 hours. (scheduled for 12)
If you hit 14 hours, the SDP is over. You must be given a legal break. |
Originally Posted by Check Essential
(Post 1648692)
Man, you're putting me on the spot.
Here's my understanding-- The language you quoted is the protection for IROPS or delay. The split duty sleep opportunity is a different thing than a "break in duty". That's why they were called CDO -- "continuous duty overnight". They can never reduce the three hours of sleep opportunity. You either get your 3 hour sleep and the outbound leg is delayed or you get a legal break in duty and you are not on a SDP any more. Keep in mind these SDPs can never go past 14 hours. (scheduled for 12) If you hit 14 hours, the SDP is over. You must be given a legal break. |
Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 1648701)
I wonder why the hell we didn't just give 'em 14 hours.... This scheduled 12 but done at 14 is a bunch of horse feces.
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Originally Posted by Sink r8
(Post 1648567)
It may not have been sprung on the MEC, but it sure was a surprise to this line pilot. I didn't even know this was on the table > If I didn't even know it was on the table, how could I voice my opinion? > If we can't all voice our opinions in a structured format, like a survey, then how do the reps have a claim to representing the will of their pilots?
I think the process, by avoiding any sort of structured input upfront, is allowing disproportionate input by minorities that lobby for specific goals. I'm cool with people asking for things, but if their ideas are that good, surely they can be discussed openly via surveys. If not a survey at the front end, at a minimum, these need to be validated by a vote on the back-end. DALPA the squeaky wheel fixer??? |
[QUOTE=Check Essential;1648513]They kicked us out for the detailed discussion about the money. Proprietary info.
However, the $40 million is a net number. The +114 pilots is net. The 5+15 ADG is [B]big dollars[/B This is total bs. They run the costing without the sdp. I bet if they run the costing with the sdp in the bid packages it's far less. Come on. These sdp eliminate the 30 hour layovers the drivers of credit. Without the 30 hour layovers and the sdp I bet the cost will be nil It affects many, many current rotations. It also affects manning. More pilots are going to be required to cover the schedule. It especially helps reserves. Getting reserve pay equal to regular pay is something we have been trying to get for a long time. That is offset by the SDPs. Even with the premium pay, those will save the company big dollars. And it will also save them pilots. There were compromises. The MEC is going to debate all of this tomorrow. It is far from certain that |
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