Not they are not the same. But i would rather do a CDO than an all night, two pilot leg down to South America.

At any rate, he was saying he cannot sleep during the day. You certainly have to sleep during the day prior to an all nighter. So in terms of getting proper rest, how is this any different?

For me personally, it isn't different. I can't sleep during the day. The difference is that with CDO's, even pilots who could sleep during the day don't. If they did (sleep during the day) it would negate their whole reason for bidding the CDO in the first place.

That's one of the reasons I've stayed in the 88 category my whole career at Delta. Because of the range of the aircraft, it is very unlikely there will ever be any significant number of redeyes in the category. The two or three that show up occasionally have been very easy for me to avoid. I've done two of them during my 16 1/2 years here. Absolutely hated them... would rather have a root canal. But the few CDO's I did 20+ years ago at a regional were worse... AND I was 20 years younger then! :eek:

In any case, why are you making the argument that because we already have some types of flying that present sleep challenges we should add more?

Agreed. I just had no idea why KW is calling people out because they re-posted a resolution.

Most of us outside of C20 had no idea "illegals" were on the table. Knowing the history and background does help one understand the context of our agreement. Unlike Ken, I saw nothing political here and did not frame it in a N/S context at all.

Some are trying to frame this as a RJ flying recovery deal. I don't think that is accurate either.

I agree with Ken, it is a Delta pilot deal. I just did not understand why he is making such a distinction when there is no difference.

I hear he is a great guy. Don't know him personally.

Because a redeye is a 6-7 hour day finishing up 0200-0300 body clock time for us west coasters while a CDO runs solidly from the last third of the circadian cycle all the way through the first of the next day.

If we vote (MEC) this in make them all voluntary and only applicable to those that want them, others may have different biological clocks. Let's not mess this up like 2012 where we punished the domestic guys with a seventh short call because international shortcall went from 24 to 12 hours.

I'm not sure we could get the Company to go for voluntary, but what if they were immune from unstacking?

Meeting has been all closed session.
Lunch break now. Open session at 1330.
Like Paul Harvey --- "stand by for news!"

CDOs aside (and I want nothing to do with them) I see no reason why we have negotiated now at all. From a Delta pilot's perspective, what is wrong with the current status quo? Things are quite favorable for us at the moment with unprecedented greenslip opportunities, reserves not starting day one until noon etc..

Despite our increased expense and multiple IROPS Delta still posted a record q1 profit. I see no need to give the company collateral now with section 6 so close.

The small number of guys wanting real productive trips (so they can pick up more real productive trips) getting a resolution through makes perfect sense to me. Lots of things in a representation type of body are driven by very vocal and angry minorities. When the rest of us wake up to what has happened our choices are limited. Our choice today is to text your rep for memrat or a delay to get more member input.......in other words, we become the angry vocal body.

The CODs (I think we need to call them what they are going to be called - SDP) don't effect me and I'll vote with you guys if given a chance, but here is why they strike me as "odd" and not for us. No, I don't think they are anymore unsafe that a lot of the other crazy back of the clock stuff we do......But........we all worked hard to get to "the majors". I like Delta (better than NWA) because it's a classier act. The company wants the efficiencies that NWA or RJ world has as we pick up more and more of the old RJ type flying, fair enough........but no. That's not who we are, we're older and have paid our dues.

At the majors, there's a dress code (name the movie reference for a beer - think baseball):cool:

Bar, Even if C20 initiated the resolution, I believe all of the other councils had to give it a pass to move it down the line.

I guess... Do we really want this? They will cost a lot to get rid of someday and well likely get 5:15 ADG C2015 anyways. Does UAL, SWA and UAL have these? If not are we doing to the industry what AA B-scale started 25 years ago?