<<<<There is a 2:15 max if with the concurrence of ALPA, but I doubt you'd see that concurrence given. They had to give the appearance of flexibility.>>>>

Well, somebody needs to tell that to the NC because when asked why, he said he would hate to see a rotation that went to "2:01" not be flown if it looked good.

I have been here long enough to know that if things aren't in black and white, they can be used against us or carry little weight. (like meet and confer)

Now, i realize there is a good relationship with the current management team, but they could leave tomorrow and then we are stuck with what is in the CBA. We need to look at what may happen worse case, not just how it looks today.

I don't hate SDP's. It may be because I have not flown them. The most fatigued I have ever been at Delta was doing a couple of 12 day NRT's. Both the copilot and I were walking zombies after those and on one we had to call scheds and refuse a legal but delayed flight. They were when you look at body clock very long SDP's. I have made a effort to talk with pilots who fly them and it's 50/50. They either love them or hate them. I think in the SDP discussion the pay no credit aspect of the rotations is getting lost. This to me is the worst part of the TA. There is a lot of good however this is a precedent we don't want to get started.
I asked my rep to send this to memory ratification. Failing that I asked him to delay a MEC vote until at least one week after language is released to the pilots so input can go to the reps.

Excellent points. I don't know of any south guys that have ever uttered a peep about wanting anything like the SDPs. In fact I have had the discussion with guys who came from the regionals talking about these, and the conclusion was always "it sure is nice we don't have these at the mainline."

If these had a rule of 6 hours behind the door, and not reducible, I think we could live with it. 6 hours block to block, and reducible? What a nightmare. I have never been a one-issue no-voter, but despite the significant improvements in this TA (the 5.15 ADG is huge, despite how others might try to dismiss it) now that I know the details of the SDPs....NO vote from me. The rest of it just isn't worth it.

Does anyone know what the limit was at NWA?

I don't think that's a concern. Nobody wanted ALPA off our property more than me, but the pilots appear to have spoken on this. I don't think ALPA is going anywhere regardless of memory rat.

As bad as this is, the real threat is this same team taking us to a section 6. This TA is following the exact same template of our last negotiations. Reps blindsided by a TA that didn't match their direction, then MEC admins seeing dissent as a personal insult to them and laying on a huge sales pitch with threats of what will happen if it is voted down. If we don't see this as the exact same thing then we didn't learn a thing from C2012 and we can fully expect this same behavior for C2015. That's the cycle we need to break...if that's possible.

Carl

Exactly what I was thinking!

Sending this back would send a very strong message to RA and the boys leading up to C15:

"The natives are restless."


Approving it would also send a very strong message:

"Go ahead and put an offer in on house #5! "

[QUOTE=iaflyer;1648975]I understand how the company doesn't want to pay ADG for a 30 hr layover.

With all due respect. I appreciate your comment but find it absolutely absurd. I believe we should get at least 6 hrs EVERY single calendar day we are on the company clock. EVERY SINGLE ONE! We are on duty. Not flight duty as you might consider but away from home on company business. It's not my job to figure a way to schedule us efficiently. If it got too expensive I am confident Delta would find a way to get me out of that 30 hour layover ie. DH me out, adjust flight schedules. I don't care what it costs Delta. Again, not my job or responsibility. Pay me for MY time.

From what I understand from C2012, the NC bringing back a TA DOES NOT mean it was within the guidelines set by the MEC.

Even if the MEC asked for A, B, and C; a YES vote is NOT A GIVEN if they realize what they asked for is not in the best interest of the pilot group. Once the yes vote is given, it's ours to live with. A no vote allows for modifications to be made.

I can wait for a better deal.

C20 passed their resolution directing their Reps to pursue CDO's. When someone notices they got what they asked for, Ken Watts goes on the warpath against former Delta pilots and says "it's political" ?

What? Why?