That's okay. I think everyone is full of crapp.

Serious question: Is there any way to put everyone on ignore and only accept underboob?

The termination laws didn't change. Only the funding requirements and what happens if a plan terminates while using airline relief funding changed.

You can't negotiate to save a pension Either it meets the standards for distress termination (business can't reorganize with the plan in place) or it doesn't. If your contract is in the way of that the court or management can use the bankruptcy process to abrogate it. Also, the insurance company (PBGC) has to agree, and they're the one that eats the loss.

We had record profits during the contract 2012 negotiations?

Apparently customers are still choosing to fly in spite of higher airfares and baggage fees. On Wednesday, Delta Air Lines reported a profit of $124 million, or 15 cents per share, for the first quarter of 2012.

Still, the Atlanta-based airline with a major hub in Salt Lake City would have reported a $39 million loss for the quarter had it not been for its financial bets on jet fuel that helped produce a gain along with $39 million from a slot exchange with U.S. Airways.

If you're drinking soymilk, switch back to regular milk. You are all over the place lately Bar. I do think you're throwing molotov cocktails for no good reason. I'm a southie. I hold nothing against our northern brothers. You need to stop with that nonsense.

Soy Milk and Estrogen Levels | LIVESTRONG.COM

They've learned to push these things down the road (ie 3 year compliance/lookback with lots of time to fix with no penalty...also agreed to by your union with no discussion or memrat with it's members). Then, just as (insert benefit) is kicking in they get our union to negotiate the real benefit with a new contact or side letter. It's how we do business. All the while the company takes full advantage on their end from day 1.

On a side note, do you feel constructive engagement is working? Is it a good thing RA and other management are at all MEC meetings?

lulz.... Going back to work on the upcoming vote? OR did Tim just let his attack dog out for a breath of air?

I missed this post in the page change. Your search-fu is weak, Fly. Log in to the website and use this link It is still posted.

The reasons for the failure were posted by the "new" C20 officers (Tucker/Rizutto/Massey) after their first MEC meeting:

Reinstatement of Illegals
Fails-Conflicts with PWA section 12.D.1 and 12.Q. Pending NPRM Flight-Duty



It looks like your council officers kept you up to date. Surprising that you didn't remember something that has become so contentious.:D

The usual suspects? Not quite the way you envisioned, eh?;)

I can't speak for Carl, but yes, you are right. I have very little faith in the NC and those who direct them. Let me see if I can sum up my skepticism.

When the company sits across from us, there is no doubt what their one and only motivation is: To ruthlessly cut our costs, all to please the shareholders. That's it.

When the NC sits down at the table, I have no idea what motivates them, or more to the point, what motivates their direction from the MEC. Political turf? Personal power consolidation? Maintaining a cushy FPL position? Jockeying for a management gig? Egos? Higher office? Rekindling a four-year-old failed resolution? Let's not forget Moak's influence.

Who knows, the line pilot might even make their top 10 priorities.

There are too many political intrigues, personal agendas, and institutional roadblocks at DALPA to think the line pilot is of any meaningful significance to the MEC/NC/power-weilding unelected bureaucrat factions who are all fighting to make their favorite flavor of sausage. The reps who haven't been corrupted by one or more of the above factors are steamrolled by those who have been.

Any benefit the line pilot receives as the result of negotiations is simply a happy coincidence, a byproduct of the above factors, plus those which we don't even know about.

p.s...Scrappy was most certainly not subjected to the contracts he negotiated, was he?

I think he's taking way too much ownership of the N-S thing that others interjected.

And still no "outrage" over cross council recall work....

You guys are picking on the wrong dude. White Russians to him.

Now the whole CDO is being blamed on some "rogue north pilots" by some here. And yet the company "couldn't care less about CDO's". Why did we need to give up another hour on long call to take something back the company was supposedly not interested in to begin with?

The process at ALPA is broken. Not for logistic or monetary reasons. It is my belief they don't set up an efficient process to let the membership get more involved because they (the MEC) do not want to give up control. I believe management also does not want the union to give up their ability to make unilateral decisions. It certainly works to their advantage.

It's interesting to watch the "group think" and top down managerial philosophy indoctrinated into all who join the upper representation. Politics are rampant with many focusing on upward advancement while trying to align with those they feel will take them the furthest. They are taught that "line pilots" are unsophisticated thinkers incapable of understanding how important a tight knit liaison with management is in getting things done. Therefore the secrecy and control. Unfortunately this personalized relationship with management can cause loyalty issues for fear of offending the high powered friends they have become so close to.

It would be relatively easy to use the various electronic means available today to involve pilots through polling, live Q and A, vetting, voting, etc at a very reasonable cost. A lot of guys would take the time to weigh in. Make it easy instead of layering barriers to entry with antiquated policy/protocol.

We preach CRM in the cockpit but our union is not interested in creating the structure to best utilize CRM with regard to communication, contract/TA's, work rules, side letters, compensation, etc. And then they feign disappointment and confusion when there is an uproar as we just saw. And yet nothing ever changes. No lessons learned. No protocol changed. They continue in their divisive ways. They keep tight fisted on control and we keep making the same dumb mistakes, divided as ever. You have to laugh when unity is preached, while very little is put into place to achieve it.