We're talking about posters here on APC, PD, not the MEC. Stay on target. :)

http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/com...7_11-20-13.pdf

Section VI deals with rest periods, and Section VIII deals with split duty periods. Read them both and pay particular attention to the wording. "sleep opportunity" and "rest opportunity" are used as separate definitions, one in each section. "rest opportunity" as it applies only to split duty is defined as being in a suitable (ground) accommodation, which could be a recliner with a light switch and a curtain. Not the same as "sleep opportunity" where you would "be reasonably expected to sleep" and would be in a facility "such as a hotel" for no less than 8 hours, and have no less than a 10 hour break in FDP ---- as it applies to FAR rest requirements for Fitness For Duty--- This would apply before and after your split duty trip, but NOT during, ie; the break.

Nowhere is the word "sleep" used in defining the rest opportunity of a split duty period.

Contrary to what some have said, this ALPA document says that under 117.15, CDO's/standbys, are permitted, with some restrictions.

I'm guessing it means fly to the FARs. Looking at the current 12 D. rules, I see winners and some losers there.

deleted, redundant post

Why concessions at all in this environment? I don't get it. I'll gladly take my 30+ hour overnights, especially if there is TRP credit in it. Doesn't bother me a bit. The reserve rules may be marginally better and the ADG may help, although trip construction will be tailored to minimize this. This concessionary stuff is unwarranted. Of course, I guess my opinion only matters to me.

Don't shoot the messenger here, but I think that it depends on how you view the TA as a whole. Is working more during your work time a concession if you are paid more and have an opportunity for more time off? (7:30 pay for a 10ish hour night with max 4 hours block) How you answer that question will depend on how you look at this TA. Personally, I'm going to wait for the language to determine if this is concessionary or not, because that will have a huge impact on the implications of any agreement.

I get that and agree. But to argue the Slit-Duty / CDO stuff isn't a significant concession is BS. Someone even chimed in that it was at our request as pilots longed for this opportunity. I don't buy it at all. Like you, I'm waiting for the details but I'm guessing this isn't the clear-cut win we were all hoping for. If this isn't an optimal negotiating environment, could someone please enlighten as to me what is?

Whoever wrote that document for ALPA is guilty of using vague and imprecise terms just like we have been doing here on the forum. When the author says "mid duty rest" he is apparently referring to the rest opportunity that is defined in 117.15

And I repeat - there is no such animal as a "CDO". Wykoff shouldn't have used that term.
And FAR 117.15 in the very first sentence says that the rest opportunity means sleep.

That ALPA Q&A is pretty good but in their attempt to give it an "everyman" informal tone and be more "conversational" they fall short in some areas. I hope (and trust) that our negotiators did better.

I would refer you to actual FAR and the supporting documents published by the FAA which provide some background and clarification.

Here's some really good background documents (if you need a sleep aid) ;)

Documents Associated with 14 CFR Part 117

To answer you first question with a question.. What was our leverage in a non section 6 negotiation? The only thing I see (and there may be more that I am not privy to) is the issue surrounding long call and a possible grievance. (that subjected each side to some risk) Ok, so beyond the value of coming to an amicable solution to that, we certainly had a bunch of "wants" and at some point the value of our "wants" exceeded what the other side was willing to give for that piece of leverage. So now the company proposes some things in return for our wish list and the negotiators try to figure out how to maximize the value of the deal. Even in section 6, there are tradeoffs. C2k, SWA contracts, UPS contracts, they all had some give and take. Leverage is only good up till the point it cost more than the alternative. Unless the wish list is short, I don't ever think there is a 100 percent win.

That being said, I am not commenting on whether this is a good deal or not. I don't know enough of the details, but the cdo deal and lack of reroute protections really bugs me.

Except for this part:
(C) Ninety consecutive minutes are available for in-flight rest for the pilot performing monitoring duties during landing.

Both pilots sitting in control seats during landing are required to have rest during flight.

But my question is, how can the pilot doing the first landing get 2 consecutive hours of rest in the second half of the FDP?