Thanks. Should've thought to look in the definitions, but there it is::

169. “Non-fly day” means a day or 24-hour period during which a pilot:
a. does not perform flying for the Company,
b. is not scheduled to perform flying for the Company,
c. does not participate in training, other than distributed training (including travel days),
d. does not perform an SLI duty period (including a flex day),
e. is not on Company business,
f. is not removed from his scheduled rotation for the convenience of the Company, or
g. is not on long call or short call.

And once defined as a non-fly day, the rest of the PWA verbiage in Sec 23 makes sense.

I'll figure this stuff out by about the time I retire!

Thanks again!

Management came to us because they needed our help. Relief. Concessions.

And we, like we always do, gave it to them.

You can like it or hate it, but pretending that management is not in a big bind with all the training coming their way is disingenuous.

The company obviously wants our help here, or they wouldn't even be talking to us about it, but I fail to see an early out program as a concession.

I see the loss of our highest paying jobs as a "concession". I see the Virgin code share, with them still flying 747's to the US of A, while we are parking ours, as a concession.

Now, how do we want to mitigate that concession? Do we just keep all those senior pilots, crammed down onto your equipment, perhaps displacing a lot of guys to lesser paying equipment? That would be a concession.

OR...do we let them retire early?

I don't see an early retirement program to mitigate displacements as a concession. Perhaps we should use this training waterfall leverage to help fix our JV imbalance?

YES! This is spot on-- they haven't been worried for several years about how all the displacements off the ER have been stagnating all of us at the bottom!

How do you figure that? We do this to ourselves. I'll say it anyway. Bigger pays more and we do not make aircraft fleet decisions.

What about the McFadden interpretation Scenario #1 ?

It seems to me that a FAR 117 30 hour rest is NOT the same as a regular X day. They can't require us to be aware of any duty that was not assigned BEFORE the 30 hours began.

The FAA says any obligation to check your schedule OR acknowledge duty breaks the rest.

Read Scenario #1 and the 2 questions:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf

I think Flying Elvis' first post was correct. If you haven't been assigned something before starting the 30 hours then you just go on long call at the end. There is no "Last non-fly day" 9 hours prior self notification type situation when it is FAA required rest.

I know, and I almost agree with you, the thing I worry about is; once you go to Longevity Based Pay, and decouple pay from productivity, how do you justify paying -anyone- more than an RJ 50 pays?

The argument can be made that any airplane that flies 6 legs a day is 'more work' (for the pilots) and therefore it should pay the most....right?

From the latest emailed flight Operations update:

Pilot Hiring Update
As of September 2, 610 pilots have entered training in 2014. We estimate there will be a total of 880 new hires for all of 2014, and we currently have approval to hire 340 pilots in 2015

Ok, before they said we had approved hiring approx 90 a month all next year... that's 1080 folks. NOW they say we only "currently" have approval to hire 340... this seems a deliberate and different amount. Folks will say they are approving it chunk by chunk... but I'm worried this is another dot for us to apply to the biq question of the 747 retirement... suddenly we don't have approval to hire 740 of the pilots we expected to hire next year? I wonder where we can find 740 pilots next year suddenly if we don't hire them?
....

Not that it was ever a 747 route anytime recently, but as long as you're on the topic, Virgin is starting LHR-DTW service.

I think they can find about 500 of them in the 747 category. :eek:

(which I think is your point.)