To use a quote:
"You have zip, zero, nada track record of how Delta pilots would handle their rest" and be irresponsible with showing up for work properly rested. That you would immediately assume your fellow aviators would act unprofessionally is appalling to say the least.

We disagree. You have opinion masquerading as facts; I have the FAA FAR117 science backed rules and confidence in my co-workers to be the professionals they were hired to be.

I'm done with this, you can have the last word.

The actual LOA language was released today by Chairman Donatelli. He handed it out to all of us in attendance and it was displayed on the big screen and discussed in open session. There is some fine tuning and a few minor wording clarifications requested by the reps but the negotiators are working to finalize it and will get it out electronically as soon as possible.


Here's the controversial sections on SDPs --

New Section 12.S.

S. Split Duty periods (SDP) (Unaugmented Ops Only)

1. The time that a pilot spends in the hotel during an SDP will not be counted toward his FDP limit.

2. The total time spent on an SDP (including the time spent in the hotel) will not be scheduled to be more than 12 hours without the consent of the MEC Sched Comm Chair.

3. A pilot on an SDP will:
a. be scheduled for two flight segments, each of which are no more than two hours, block-to-block, separated by at least six hours (block in to block out).
Exception: A flight segment in an SDP may be scheduled up to two hours and fifteen minutes, block-to-block, with the concurrence of the MEC Sched Comm Chair.
b. receive a sleep opportunity of at least three hours between 2200 and 0500 local time, measured from the time he arrives in his hotel room.
Note: If, due to late operations, a pilot does not receive such a sleep opportunity, the Company will:
1) schedule such a pilot to fly his originally scheduled flight segment after receiving a sleep opportunity of at least three hours, or
2) provide such a pilot a break in duty immediately after his first flight segment.
c. will not be rerouted into an additional flight segment, other than to continue to his original destination after a diversion to an alternate airport.

4. An SDP will not be combined with additional duty periods in a rotation.

5. A pilot:
a. will not be rerouted into an SDP.
b. may bid to avoid an SDP in PBS.
c. on an SDP in a base with co-terminal airports will depart from and arrive at the same airport.
d. whose SDP results in pay and credit under Section 12.M.2 of less than seven hours and thirty minutes will receive pay, no credit for the difference between seven hours and thirty minutes and such pay and credit.

6. The company and the assoc. will meet and confer at the request of either party to review issues related to the construction of SDPs, customs for intl ops in an SDP, hotel transportation requirements, and any other areas of concern.

New Section 12.Q.4

4. A pilot:
a. will not be scheduled to fly in more than three consecutive WOCLs.
b. who is scheduled to fly in three consecutive WOCLs will not fly into the subsequent two WOCLs, other than as late operations.
Exception: A pilot who is scheduled to fly in three consecutive WOCLs and who is not scheduled to fly in the fourth consecutive WOCL may be awarded flying in the fifth consecutive WOCL if he requests such duty.

New Section 12.J: Exception 2.

A pilot will not be entitled to ADG:
2) on an SDP.

FAA science backed rules? Did you really say that?

Where's my ballot? That is my no vote, right there. I don't need to see the rest. The 2+15 increase means that the company will be able to increase these block times in the bid package... that is not for a flight that happens to be running a little late. This is an abomination, and I cannot believe some are buying off on it... We will get at least 5:15 in the section 6 next year. I'm not interested in compromising safety for a few bucks. Sorry.

Absolute no vote. The way the language is written, it won't be uncommon for weather, connecting passengers, or maintenance to make the rest be 3 hours rather than 6. I've done them when I was in my 20s, and they were awful then. They'll be even worse now that I'm in my 40s. E-mail your reps!

3 hours of sleep at a minimum? Sign me up!

That doesn't say bupkis about 6 hours rest. That says 6 hours block to block. Factor in deplaning the passengers, putting the airplane to bed, getting transportation both ways, checking into the hotel... preflight on the other end...emplaning passengers, delays etc etc etc.... Yeah.. this is a science backed good deal....

Five hours ago you post this...
Then, with only a few officially leaked paragraphs of the supposed actual TA language, you've seen enough. Still no official language released by DALPA.

And you really have very little more than you had before but you're ready to vote no.

I'm with you, but do you not see the utter hypocrisy in your posts?

I'll give you one thing. You're consistently inconsistent.

Flame on young man...flame on.

They kicked us out for the detailed discussion about the money. Proprietary info.
However, the $40 million is a net number. The +114 pilots is net.

The 5+15 ADG is big dollars. It affects many, many current rotations. It also affects manning. More pilots are going to be required to cover the schedule. It especially helps reserves. Getting reserve pay equal to regular pay is something we have been trying to get for a long time.

That is offset by the SDPs. Even with the premium pay, those will save the company big dollars. And it will also save them pilots.

There were compromises. The MEC is going to debate all of this tomorrow.
It is far from certain that it will pass.

Only with the concurrence of the MEC Scheduling Committee, who works for the MEC Chairman, who works for the MEC. I'm having trouble imagining this concurrence being given.

At which point it will go on the costing sheet, rather than being a baseline upon which we improve.

I'm not disagreeing with your overall conclusion, only trying to add a few more facts to the consideration thereof.