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Originally Posted by Alan Shore
(Post 1645076)
I don't consider it rationalizing or coping. I fight tooth and nail to improve the things I can control, and I refuse to let myself be negatively affected by what I cannot. In the meantime, I thank God everyday for the ability to tell the difference and for everything that He has bestowed upon me.
See my previous post for my view on give and take in any given negotiation. CDOs are a concession and ultimately if anyone really wanted to test fatigue issues with CDOs, I guarantee they are the worst offenders. I cant believe we are discussing "illegals" in a time like this. No amount of "spin" or the new details about CDOs will make them safer, especially in IROP situations. TEN |
Originally Posted by index
(Post 1645067)
Becoming knowledgable about the contract and using its provisions to the fullest extent is different than exceptions to the rule. You can't put yourself in a position favorable to yourself when the exceptions were put in by the company to exclude you.
Originally Posted by index
(Post 1645067)
Reroute pay is a perfect example. The general rule is that (for domestic) if you get rerouted and return later than 4 hours later than originally scheduled then you get reroute pay. However, and this as you already know is the big gotcha, the EXCEPTIONS (the situations where you DON'T get reroute pay) swallow the general rule. The "beyond the company's control" carve out means reroute pay is almost always denied because the company argues that everything is beyond their control. There is no way to "put yourself in a position" to make this work out in your favor.
Originally Posted by index
(Post 1645067)
As for increasing the ADG, if that turns out to be true, how are you going to "put yourself in a position" that it favors you?
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Originally Posted by Alan Shore
(Post 1645041)
Unlike DPA, the 4:30 ADG we have today applies to both regular and reserve pilots. I assume that any increase to ADG would also apply equally to both.
I don't see a 5:15 ADG as being much of a gain. Besides the very few trips were the 4:30 ADG kicks in, don't all trips already pay 5:15 per day? What am I missing? Scoop |
Originally Posted by TenYearsGone
(Post 1645079)
Please fight tooth and nail, please, pretty please. NO CDOs.
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Originally Posted by Scoop
(Post 1645083)
I don't see a 5:15 ADG as being much of a gain. Besides the very few trips were the 4:30 ADG kicks in don't all trips already pay 5:15 per day?
What am I missing? Also, DPA does not apply to a reserve pilot. |
Whats our rush? I bid RSV most of the time and commute and the current situation is tolerable while they get the LOA we need. I agree with the other posters that we don't need to give up anything PERIOD.
Give and take is a TRADE! not a win. We are in a very good negotiating environment. I don't want to hear excuses about why we can't perform even in this perfect environment. Please don't rush this dang TA. If it has concessions in it then vote it down and prove before we get to C2015 that we will in fact take a stand to anything substandard. Management is watching to see what they can slide past us. :( |
Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 1644430)
Yeah homie, you got me. I am introducing class warfare when I have no clue about his background. But if something makes a quacking sound, it probably IS a duck.
How's that DPA thing going? (quack) And btw... when is the vote? With respects |
Originally Posted by Alan Shore
(Post 1645087)
Trips today pay 5:15 per qualifying duty period (DPA), which excludes deadhead-only duty periods, duty periods in which all flight are cancelled, etc. We have plenty of 3-day trips with a 30-hour layover worth 14 hours or so, and a pop-up trip that flies to a layover and deadheads back might be worth only 7:15.
Also, DPA does not apply to a reserve pilot. OK - The DH portion makes sense to me but my point is that the trips that don't have a duty period are already covered by the 4:30 ADG and they are a small percentage of trips. As far as reserve pilots getting DPA I guess it affects people in different seats/bases differently. I fly mostly reserve and have been doing so for 15 years - never broke the reserve guarantee once so I don't really care what each indidviudal trip pays when I am on reserve. I guess this would benefit the guys who are routinely flown above the guarantee, and obviously on a reserve GS this would be important. I guess what I am saying is we already have a DPA of 5:15 so why wouldn't we be looking at 5:30, 5:45 etc? Scoop :confused: |
This sounds like a very nice win for the DAL pilot. Several advances not requiring capital in the next contract is a very good thing. Holding the line on 3 man/4 man crew is big and tips the company's hand for the next contract. CDO's may be a good thing for some of us and a terrible thing for others... iow, more options for the line holder. ADG increase...bout time.
Mem Rat? Passes huge. (based on the items reported) |
Originally Posted by index
(Post 1645029)
Yes, the devil is always in the details. I wonder who those details are going to favor? Hmmmmmmmm???? Alan?
Originally Posted by Alan Shore
(Post 1645047)
My goal is always to learn those details and to put myself into a position that they do favor me. ;)
Originally Posted by index
(Post 1645067)
Becoming knowledgable about the contract and using its provisions to the fullest extent is different than exceptions to the rule. You can't put yourself in a position favorable to yourself when the exceptions were put in by the company to exclude you.
Originally Posted by Alan Shore
(Post 1645081)
Smart bidding, etc. can certainly minimize it.
Two things -- I always stay senior enough in category to avoid trips I do not wish to fly, and I do what I need to do to find the proverbial hat many times over. ;) The issue is why do we continue to allow any loopholes in ADG, reroute pay, etc... We need to protect ALL pilots, not just the senior ones who can bid to avoid the screw job. Your opinion may differ. |
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