With the assumption of a 5:15 ADG (or any increased ADG), how would reserve pay be affected? Hoping to see something for reserve guys from the LOA with not all the spoils going to line holders.

I guess I see it as all relative. We're behind where we were, in terms of inflation-adjusted dollars, even prior to C2K. And many of Delta's employees (not just management) are much less behind, or even ahead, of that metric.

OTOH, we are well ahead of where we were in BK (where I understand Delta was within days of not making payroll), though not by much in inflation-adjusted dollars. But we are ahead even there.

I fully agree on healthcare costs and DB. Even with my PMDL note and claim and DC moneys, I am way behind where I would have been under the DB. I can only thank my lucky stars that I've diligently contributed to my 401(k) since way back. My stash should be enough to keep me from needing to be head cashier at Walmart to stay off the streets.

Standard is such a relative term that it's not even worth bringing up, in my view. What's the standard? Where we were or where everyone else is now? My preference is the former, while the rest of the world unfortunately considers it to be the latter.

In the meantime, it's a beautifully sunny day for me sitting on my pool deck having my morning Joe. The kids are waking up and we'll be on the river later today.

Life is good.

Unlike DPA, the 4:30 ADG we have today applies to both regular and reserve pilots. I assume that any increase to ADG would also apply equally to both.

Yep. Have a litmus test. If after one or two bid periods they all wind up in open time and are forced on reserves, then they need to go away.

My goal is always to learn those details and to put myself into a position that they do favor me. ;)

What also seems to be wildy ignored around here is that during BK we did all of the giving and the company did all of the taking. After those massive concessions our new norm is to take one step back in order to take two steps forward.

CDO's alone are a concession, why are we conceding anything right now? Entertaining anything that reduces pilot needs is beyond me.

As you have admitted we are still behind where we were even before C2K. But we are ahead of where we were post BK. I agree with both.

The fact that we are not as far behind as we were in BK does NOT translate to "we're winning" "management is losing." Record profits, management excesses, other employee groups made whole while we strap our backpacks on and work for substandard wages is NOT a win.

Every "gain" we achieve is coupled with a giveback. CDOs ARE a concession. Period. It doesn't matter if they "go senior" or "pay well." At some point someone who doesn't want to fly them will be forced to. This flies in the face of ALPA's Schedule With Safety motto.

If you want to rationalize that because you enjoy your time with your family and that this job still offers many benefits (and I agree with both of these) then it's all "relative" then I understand your coping mechanism. I do this myself sometimes as well.

But please, understand what you are doing does not mean we win, they lose. We should not be giving up ANYTHING during this negotiating environment. It's never been as good as it is now. Why are we making ANY concessions?

Not true. At least partially offsetting the loss of DB and the paycuts were the note and claim, which put around $2.1B into our pockets. As we gave the paycuts to help them out of BK, they gave back the $2.1B as soon as they were out. The net was a loss for us, but there were gives and takes on both sides.

That is the nature of every negotiation that I have ever seen -- gives and takes on both sides, with a net gain for one side or the other.

Becoming knowledgable about the contract and using its provisions to the fullest extent is different than exceptions to the rule. You can't put yourself in a position favorable to yourself when the exceptions were put in by the company to exclude you.

Reroute pay is a perfect example. The general rule is that (for domestic) if you get rerouted and return later than 4 hours later than originally scheduled then you get reroute pay. However, and this as you already know is the big gotcha, the EXCEPTIONS (the situations where you DON'T get reroute pay) swallow the general rule. The "beyond the company's control" carve out means reroute pay is almost always denied because the company argues that everything is beyond their control. There is no way to "put yourself in a position" to make this work out in your favor.

As for increasing the ADG, if that turns out to be true, how are you going to "put yourself in a position" that it favors you? Management puts these provisions in the PWA precisely to keep from having to pay you. While you personally may avoid these trips, someone will have to fly them. There should be no carve outs!

I don't consider it rationalizing or coping. I fight tooth and nail to improve the things I can control, and I refuse to let myself be negatively affected by what I cannot. In the meantime, I thank God everyday for the ability to tell the difference and for everything that He has bestowed upon me.

See my previous post for my view on give and take in any given negotiation.