Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-23-2014 | 04:33 PM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
That's pure horse****. Most of us who had the balls to accept one or more PDs (and the associated managerial harassment) would rather have taken it to a grievance. But DALPA allowed us to play the role of hostage. Let the company think about it until C15.
I guess I'd ask how you can defend why "our" "union" offered zero top cover for those who might have needed a loan in their quests to defend the contract.
That's what causes disunity--waffling and squishy language, passive guidance.
Want unity? Start with strong, firm leadership and a willingness to rumble for guys who lay it on the line.
I guess I'd ask how you can defend why "our" "union" offered zero top cover for those who might have needed a loan in their quests to defend the contract.
That's what causes disunity--waffling and squishy language, passive guidance.
Want unity? Start with strong, firm leadership and a willingness to rumble for guys who lay it on the line.
Carl
05-23-2014 | 04:36 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 852
Likes: 0
My reps say it was there. Your reps never mentioned it. Noted.
Let's mark your comment for future reference. I think when all of the LEC's have put out their comments about the meeting, we will see who got this one right.
05-23-2014 | 04:40 PM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Really? You would have a preferred a grievance process to what we got?
I guess you could have applied to the furlough emergency relief fund ... cash flow that tight? Goodness. Had no idea.
So which is it? Did you want your association to get you your money ASAP, or drag it out while engaging in meaningless chest beating. I mean if you needed the money it would seem sooner is better.
I guess you could have applied to the furlough emergency relief fund ... cash flow that tight? Goodness. Had no idea.
So which is it? Did you want your association to get you your money ASAP, or drag it out while engaging in meaningless chest beating. I mean if you needed the money it would seem sooner is better.
Unreal.
Carl
05-23-2014 | 04:41 PM
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,263
Likes: 105
From: DAL 330
This TA is not all positive. It was some gain and some concession. Allowing members to vote is not "going through the motions."
What difference would that make? You only want MEMRAT when you personally disagree with something?
That's not true, but it's beside the point. See below.
Your logic is puzzling because you're really laying out a scenario where MEMRAT is never used. When something is perceived as a majority positive for pilots, MEMRAT is a waste of time, money, and just "going through the motions." When something is perceived as bad for pilots, people like you, shiznit and the others say not to worry because if it's bad, our reps will just vote no for us and thus not require MEMRAT. So in your world, exactly when is MEMRAT appropriate?
Carl
What difference would that make? You only want MEMRAT when you personally disagree with something?
That's not true, but it's beside the point. See below.
Your logic is puzzling because you're really laying out a scenario where MEMRAT is never used. When something is perceived as a majority positive for pilots, MEMRAT is a waste of time, money, and just "going through the motions." When something is perceived as bad for pilots, people like you, shiznit and the others say not to worry because if it's bad, our reps will just vote no for us and thus not require MEMRAT. So in your world, exactly when is MEMRAT appropriate?
Carl
I personally do no think that this needs to go to MEMRAT but Carl makes some good points. Just because many think it is good seems like kind of an odd criteria for deciding on MEMRAT.
Then again the union has to be realistic about how and when to have a full blown vote. It would be nice to have some hard and fast guidelines - either something triggers a MEMRAT or not, but perceived popularity seems like an odd discriminator. Especially perceived popularity without recent polling.
Finally if something in the future is not going to MEMRAT it would be nice to have some standard procedures for MEC ratification. Perhaps final language published and e-mailed to all 12,000 of us for review followed by a minimum comment period of 2 weeks to a month seems reasonable for most situations. And I would really like to see the "PRO/CON" papers re-instituted.
Scoop
05-23-2014 | 04:43 PM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
05-23-2014 | 04:45 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Likes: 0
The people I have the greatest respect for are people who place the interests of the Delta pilots first, and act accordingly. You're probably a better than average observer of these guys, and maybe we agree there are tools and great guys in any sort of faction? Ultimately, I assign the greatest value on effective actions, and the least respect for people who act for a political faction first and foremost.
At the very bottom of the rung, if you have to compare two factions, you hope the one that least f*c**d up prevails, but I also think you weed these guys out as fast as you can, if you can find an independent replacement.
The problem seems to be that our MEC is coalescing more around pre-merger lines than anything else. We took a chance on a N pilot in NYC, and I hope he can show signs of independence, and break the mold rather than to run home. We'll have to see.
Last edited by Sink r8; 05-23-2014 at 05:24 PM. Reason: Grammar
05-23-2014 | 04:49 PM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
It depends on if DALPA would release the survey results. 
That's actually a pretty good plan. Just say that the results showed we didn't want polling anymore...but we can't release the poll because we don't want management to see our poker hand.
Carl
Carl
05-23-2014 | 04:54 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Likes: 0
What's your explanation for this TA? The NC going rogue, and throwing CDO's in at the last session? Did you read CE's reports frim the meeting? Are you calling him misguided, or just a liar, when he said it was obvious the MEC was prepared for extensive questions on CDo's?
You're really slipping.
05-23-2014 | 04:56 PM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Carl
05-23-2014 | 05:04 PM
Looking for a laugh
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
Likes: 0
Let's look at this whole process from management's perspective.
Today, they had a hotwash with their union buster to critique the test run of their C15 strategy. It's called "Divide and Conquer."
Here's how it works:
- the union buster writes a memo that totally ignores the contract. SD signs it.
- DALPA hems, haws and fails to provide decisive leadership, implicitly condoning the memo
- the company takes hostages by monetarily and psychologically penalizing those who stand up for the contract
- DALPA doesn't do jack **** to assist the hostages
- the guys who step up despise DALPA for a lack of backbone
- guys who aren't personally affected see DALPA rolling over; disunity ensues
- several months or years later, DALPA produces an inadequate TA and MD writes a "victory lap" memo
- yada yada yada (the closest description I can manage to describe what just happened)
- we get our asses handed to us a la C12
Bar, you preach "unity" but blindly fail to recognize that DALPA's actions (or inactions) are largely at fault.
Today, they had a hotwash with their union buster to critique the test run of their C15 strategy. It's called "Divide and Conquer."
Here's how it works:
- the union buster writes a memo that totally ignores the contract. SD signs it.
- DALPA hems, haws and fails to provide decisive leadership, implicitly condoning the memo
- the company takes hostages by monetarily and psychologically penalizing those who stand up for the contract
- DALPA doesn't do jack **** to assist the hostages
- the guys who step up despise DALPA for a lack of backbone
- guys who aren't personally affected see DALPA rolling over; disunity ensues
- several months or years later, DALPA produces an inadequate TA and MD writes a "victory lap" memo
- yada yada yada (the closest description I can manage to describe what just happened)
- we get our asses handed to us a la C12
Bar, you preach "unity" but blindly fail to recognize that DALPA's actions (or inactions) are largely at fault.
What you posted is nothing but pure speculation on your part as to what happened today by the company and DALPA's actions. As you and Carl are so fond of saying:
Otherwise, might I suggest you precede your posts with, "IMO."
Please also refrain from deflecting by accusing me of being an apologist, on FPL, a koolaid drinker, etc. It does nothing but take away any traction you may have on some of your posts, which I actually agree with from time to time.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
