Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Yet you mischaracterize again. Never said I want APA tactics used here. And sending back the first offer does not equate to APA tactics. The pilots of Hawaiian sent back their first offer in bankruptcy and got a much better one. You would have been far too scared to do that. That's your right to be scared all the time, but I just don't think you union officials should publicly tout your fear so openly. It's bad for negotiations.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Well stated Sir.

You are correct, we as a MEC, thought the SDP would be a way to give pilots what they wanted, which was fewer 30 hour sits and more time at home.

Then C20 (where the idea came from on paper) got very defensive when the politics went South (what a pun) and tried to deflect. Their pilots want memrat to distance themselves politically from an idea which is already dead for this round and was a joint MEC position by this stage. Their calls for recall are completely over the top ... and of course we had a unanimous vote which seals the deal. It was all so emo.

Perhaps a better tact (and what a lot of reps have done) is to step up responsibly and state "yes, we directed the NC to the SDP." Because I think the idea which originated from C 20 isn't bad. We probably will see SDP in future negotiations. I think it is in our benefit to address and limit this back side of the clock flying because as is we have the worst case scenario of being able to do it as a day line that just duties in late with very few protections and we can't benefit from the scheduling (more time at home) and pay (more credit) that these might allow.

Briefly then, we need to continue this SDP discussion because I think they could be a benefit.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Yes.

It is no fun being lied about and having your integrity questioned.

Hate is too strong a word. But, I will go as far as to say your invective has not added any objective information to this discussion. You just make it about you.

You had made friends here among several of the mods. Then following DPA talking points, you attacked them, lied about them, recently called for the loss of one of their positions where they tirelessly serve the Delta pilots. Your failure, as a person, is to put talking points above your own personal friendships, relationships with co-workers and professionalism. I believe you owe these people an apology.

Going forward you should behave as if you are in a room among friends, co-workers and professionals ... because you are.

Your going after XXXX was the last straw for me. He is a good friend. Since my best friend was killed by Gulfstream ... those two circles roughly intersect at one point.

Since you like talking about my friends, lets talk about something you know something about for a change.

Originally Posted by capncrunch

Can you possibly spin this harder?

Originally Posted by Karnak

This is from the C1 update sent this morning.

The tentative agreement reached last week by the negotiators met the direction the MEC had provided to them over the course of multiple meetings, including a “mid-course adjustment” two months ago. During the 7-day review period required by the MEC Policy Manual, it became apparent that the modeling and assumptions regarding Split Duty Period (SDP) flying (aka “CDOs”, “Illegals”, “Stand-ups”) was not what we envisioned when we gave direction to the negotiating committee several months ago. Also, your feedback during the last week solidified our view that the addition of SDPs was not in the best interest of Delta pilots. It’s important to note that the 7-day review period was established to allow exactly this type of reassessment.

After a line-by-line dissection of the agreement on Wednesday, and following a vigorous discussion on Thursday, the MEC called an audible, and directed the negotiators to seek modifications that would eliminate SDPs. That effort was successful, and the new agreement was presented to us for approval.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Yikes, that's such an ugly post I don't want to even be associated with it.

Carl

Originally Posted by tsquare

You have got to be kidding me. In one breath you go from saying that it isn't the first offer to it is the first offer. Good grief Carl.

Originally Posted by tsquare

But let me try to understand. The negotiators go into negotiations, and turn down the first offer... I think that's safe to say, but from your perspective I am not so sure... But anyway, they haggle and finally come up with a deal. They then present it to the pilot group as a whole.. but because it is the first time WE have seen the deal, it is back to square one, ipso facto the first offer, and therefore worthy of nothing but a rubber stamp sending it back... is that about right? Why do we e en bother with negotiators? FOr that matter, we really don't need the memory rat. Let's call it the Spackler device that automatically rejects any TA until it is sent back to the table.

Originally Posted by tsquare

Standing by to receive input as to how "scared" I am or how "risk intolerant" I am or some other such foolishness...

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

You don't have to apologize to me. But you should to the others.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Again, you went there. If you want to talk about my friends, then I should find the intersection where they meet.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

You have 48 hours.

Originally Posted by tsquare

Airtran sent back the first offer and got stapled. You just want to hear yourself talk.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Again, what are you talking about.

Carl