Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-23-2014 | 04:58 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
My advice to ACL, which he disagrees with, is to candidly state the Company is acting in bad faith and is not compliant with the agreement they made. The Company has blown us off and decided to, again, negotiate out of a scope violation, just as they have before.
The obvious question; is we do not enforce the spirit of this JV, will we enforce any scope provision?
This may not be a fair question yet, but it will be timely next spring.
In the mean time numerous questions are being answered about Delta's long term plans. I see a virtual repeat of CapEx coming to acquire "scope busting" airplanes by non seniority list carriers coincidentally when our 717 ' s come up for renewal. I see Delta money will probably be used to help re fleet Virgin and other equity partners. It gets back to the central question, do we continue to liquidate scope as Delta continues to diversify away from Delta pilots?
Our MEC has these same questions and concerns. We have many good advocates, like ACL, working for us. We need them.
Again, we need to be very thoughtful in how we direct their actions.
ACL was strongly against the three year JV window and one year cure. He is correct the MEC can not do anything now. But from my view he is safe saying what the rest of us are thinking and nobody likes the Company's non compliance with our agreement. But then again, what if the Company hits the reset percentage and this was all about nothing? In that case ACL (and others) are being very smart to keep their powder dry and save fire for a smaller measurement period.
He is a smart guy.
The obvious question; is we do not enforce the spirit of this JV, will we enforce any scope provision?
This may not be a fair question yet, but it will be timely next spring.
In the mean time numerous questions are being answered about Delta's long term plans. I see a virtual repeat of CapEx coming to acquire "scope busting" airplanes by non seniority list carriers coincidentally when our 717 ' s come up for renewal. I see Delta money will probably be used to help re fleet Virgin and other equity partners. It gets back to the central question, do we continue to liquidate scope as Delta continues to diversify away from Delta pilots?
Our MEC has these same questions and concerns. We have many good advocates, like ACL, working for us. We need them.
Again, we need to be very thoughtful in how we direct their actions.
ACL was strongly against the three year JV window and one year cure. He is correct the MEC can not do anything now. But from my view he is safe saying what the rest of us are thinking and nobody likes the Company's non compliance with our agreement. But then again, what if the Company hits the reset percentage and this was all about nothing? In that case ACL (and others) are being very smart to keep their powder dry and save fire for a smaller measurement period.
He is a smart guy.
07-23-2014 | 05:11 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
It would be hard to write that Comm without concensus on where we go from here.
It would be good to again remind the pilots that the Transatlantic JV negotiation resulted in a gain for Delta pilots. Management just has not delivered and by some estimates underperformed even our status quo.
07-23-2014 | 05:13 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,206
Likes: 0
From: DAL FO
Question for contract guys.
I received a 4 day green slip over 1 day off, 2 days of reserve, and 1 day off. I know I get 2 comp days because the green slip covered 2 days off. My question is, do I get the entire value of the trip over reserve guarantee or only the trip value that was over my days off.
Second question, is reserve guarantee ALV - 2?
I received a 4 day green slip over 1 day off, 2 days of reserve, and 1 day off. I know I get 2 comp days because the green slip covered 2 days off. My question is, do I get the entire value of the trip over reserve guarantee or only the trip value that was over my days off.
Second question, is reserve guarantee ALV - 2?
Just to get your terminology correct so Scheduling will understand you better...There is no such thing as a "comp day." They are called payback (PB) days. Also, days off are called X days.
I think I understand your ? correctly, but to clarify, this answer is based on the following: Your schedule is 1 X day, 2 RSV days, followed by another X day. Hopefully I got that right...
You will get one Payback (shows up as PB and/or PR on your line) for each X day the trip covers. If you have RSV days remaining in the current calendar month, scheduling automatically places these PB/PR days on your subsequent RSV days. You don't get to choose where they are placed. This is also where the term "rolling thunder" comes from, as your X days become PB days and are "rolled" forward to cover up your next RSV days <----still with me?
If you DON'T have any remaining RSV days for the month, the PB/PR days will go into your Payback Bank which is viewable on your Time Card in iCrew. You should keep an eye on this, as this process is manually accomplished and sometimes things fall through the cracks.
To get back to your questions...You will be paid Single Pay/No Credit (No Credit means the GS will not offset your RSV guarantee) above your RSV Guarantee. A plain English example:
RSV Guarantee: 80 hours
Your Credit for the month to date: 60 hours
You fly a GS worth 12 hours
You receive pay of 92 hours
Your Credit for the month remains at 60 hours with a RSV Guarantee of 20 hours
Your situation is a little more involved as 2 of the days operate on RSV days. In this case you will receive Single Pay above Guarantee for the value of Day 1. Days 2 and 3 will count as Credit, offsetting your RSV Guarantee. Day 4 will then again be Single Pay above Guarantee, but no credit.
Additionally, all soft-time (also known as credit, confusing huh?
) is allocated to the last day of a rotation. This means that if you fly a 4 day as a RSV that is worth 18 hours, but you only blocked 10 hours hard-time, then the 8 hours of soft-time (credit) will be allocated on day 4. In your case this is a good thing, but it could just as easily screw you if day 4 happens to be a RSV day <---This is Honors Level GS sharpshooting, but something you will want to keep an eye on. To answer your 2nd question: Yes, RSV guarantee is ALV-2 BUT never less than 72 or more than 80.
07-23-2014 | 05:23 AM
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
Question for contract guys.
I received a 4 day green slip over 1 day off, 2 days of reserve, and 1 day off. I know I get 2 comp days because the green slip covered 2 days off. My question is, do I get the entire value of the trip over reserve guarantee or only the trip value that was over my days off.
Second question, is reserve guarantee ALV - 2?
I received a 4 day green slip over 1 day off, 2 days of reserve, and 1 day off. I know I get 2 comp days because the green slip covered 2 days off. My question is, do I get the entire value of the trip over reserve guarantee or only the trip value that was over my days off.
Second question, is reserve guarantee ALV - 2?
Yes. Reserve guarantee is ALV minus 2, BUT never less than 72 hours and never more than 80 hours.
07-23-2014 | 05:29 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
Not a "contract guy" but I'll take a crack at this one.
Just to get your terminology correct so Scheduling will understand you better...There is no such thing as a "comp day." They are called payback (PB) days. Also, days off are called X days.
I think I understand your ? correctly, but to clarify, this answer is based on the following: Your schedule is 1 X day, 2 RSV days, followed by another X day. Hopefully I got that right...
You will get one Payback (shows up as PB and/or PR on your line) for each X day the trip covers. If you have RSV days remaining in the current calendar month, scheduling automatically places these PB/PR days on your subsequent RSV days. You don't get to choose where they are placed. This is also where the term "rolling thunder" comes from, as your X days become PB days and are "rolled" forward to cover up your next RSV days <----still with me?
If you DON'T have any remaining RSV days for the month, the PB/PR days will go into your Payback Bank which is viewable on your Time Card in iCrew. You should keep an eye on this, as this process is manually accomplished and sometimes things fall through the cracks.
To get back to your questions...You will be paid Single Pay/No Credit (No Credit means the GS will not offset your RSV guarantee) above your RSV Guarantee. A plain English example:
RSV Guarantee: 80 hours
Your Credit for the month to date: 60 hours
You fly a GS worth 12 hours
You receive pay of 92 hours
Your Credit for the month remains at 60 hours with a RSV Guarantee of 20 hours
Your situation is a little more involved as 2 of the days operate on RSV days. In this case you will receive Single Pay above Guarantee for the value of Day 1. Days 2 and 3 will count as Credit, offsetting your RSV Guarantee. Day 4 will then again be Single Pay above Guarantee, but no credit.
Additionally, all soft-time (also known as credit, confusing huh? ) is allocated to the last day of a rotation. This means that if you fly a 4 day as a RSV that is worth 18 hours, but you only blocked 10 hours hard-time, then the 8 hours of soft-time (credit) will be allocated on day 4. In your case this is a good thing, but it could just as easily screw you if day 4 happens to be a RSV day <---This is Honors Level GS sharpshooting, but something you will want to keep an eye on.
To answer your 2nd question: Yes, RSV guarantee is ALV-2 BUT never less than 72 or more than 80.
Just to get your terminology correct so Scheduling will understand you better...There is no such thing as a "comp day." They are called payback (PB) days. Also, days off are called X days.
I think I understand your ? correctly, but to clarify, this answer is based on the following: Your schedule is 1 X day, 2 RSV days, followed by another X day. Hopefully I got that right...
You will get one Payback (shows up as PB and/or PR on your line) for each X day the trip covers. If you have RSV days remaining in the current calendar month, scheduling automatically places these PB/PR days on your subsequent RSV days. You don't get to choose where they are placed. This is also where the term "rolling thunder" comes from, as your X days become PB days and are "rolled" forward to cover up your next RSV days <----still with me?
If you DON'T have any remaining RSV days for the month, the PB/PR days will go into your Payback Bank which is viewable on your Time Card in iCrew. You should keep an eye on this, as this process is manually accomplished and sometimes things fall through the cracks.
To get back to your questions...You will be paid Single Pay/No Credit (No Credit means the GS will not offset your RSV guarantee) above your RSV Guarantee. A plain English example:
RSV Guarantee: 80 hours
Your Credit for the month to date: 60 hours
You fly a GS worth 12 hours
You receive pay of 92 hours
Your Credit for the month remains at 60 hours with a RSV Guarantee of 20 hours
Your situation is a little more involved as 2 of the days operate on RSV days. In this case you will receive Single Pay above Guarantee for the value of Day 1. Days 2 and 3 will count as Credit, offsetting your RSV Guarantee. Day 4 will then again be Single Pay above Guarantee, but no credit.
Additionally, all soft-time (also known as credit, confusing huh?
) is allocated to the last day of a rotation. This means that if you fly a 4 day as a RSV that is worth 18 hours, but you only blocked 10 hours hard-time, then the 8 hours of soft-time (credit) will be allocated on day 4. In your case this is a good thing, but it could just as easily screw you if day 4 happens to be a RSV day <---This is Honors Level GS sharpshooting, but something you will want to keep an eye on. To answer your 2nd question: Yes, RSV guarantee is ALV-2 BUT never less than 72 or more than 80.
International trips make these factoids powerful tools...day 1 is generally a fly day...move an x day there, tell the scheduler, this is contractual. Day 2 is generally a layover day... Don't care about moving an x day, day 3 or 4 is generally a fly day...move an x day there (3 days prior in pcs). Now you are Thor.
07-23-2014 | 05:42 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,206
Likes: 0
From: DAL FO
LL, very solid explanation, just 2 comments... Contractually, if his 1st day was a reserve day, he can move an x day to day 1 and if there is reserve coverage on day 4, and day 4 is a reserve day, he can PCS an x day there and possibly to day 3 depending upon when he got notified of the green slip.
International trips make these factoids powerful tools...day 1 is generally a fly day...move an x day there, tell the scheduler, this is contractual. Day 2 is generally a layover day... Don't care about moving an x day, day 3 or 4 is generally a fly day...move an x day there (3 days prior in pcs). Now you are Thor.
International trips make these factoids powerful tools...day 1 is generally a fly day...move an x day there, tell the scheduler, this is contractual. Day 2 is generally a layover day... Don't care about moving an x day, day 3 or 4 is generally a fly day...move an x day there (3 days prior in pcs). Now you are Thor.
07-23-2014 | 06:05 AM
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
Is the same process we have in place for large violations of the PWA. We can grieve it, or negotiate it. Not sure there is much taste for the second, but the first will take a ton of time during section 6.
Also codifying damages of non compliance in the PWA just would make contractual violations a business decision. IE violate the EASK provisions just pay the pilots dollars. Trust me, you do that, you create data that makes violating the PWA a good business decision. IE a dangerous road to travel. Esp w scope.
Also codifying damages of non compliance in the PWA just would make contractual violations a business decision. IE violate the EASK provisions just pay the pilots dollars. Trust me, you do that, you create data that makes violating the PWA a good business decision. IE a dangerous road to travel. Esp w scope.
And for the above reason, it is already a good business decision to violate the contract. Corporations are people too, right? If they know that a violation will not be resolved for 3 or 4 years, that is a lot of coin in the bank that can be invested/leveraged to cover any reasonable damages they can expect to incur. Again, the cards are squarely stacked against us on these kinds of issues. However, I would still have the lawsuit paperwork ready to go as soon as the violation "occurs".
07-23-2014 | 06:07 AM
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
I disagree. On this issue, I am coming down on the hard liners' side. This needs filing immediately upon occurrence of the violation. We know exactly when that occurs, and since the lawyers are on retainer, to have them draft the paperwork gives them something to do besides drink ALPA coffee all day.
07-23-2014 | 06:12 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,026
Likes: 0
From: maddoggy dog
Yeah. That's what I thought you'd say. Grievance or negotiation, the result will be the same. Ultimately, jobs will have been sold. Not saying that this is in any way dALPA's fault, but there is no way that I can think of that any contract violation on the company's part can NOT result in monetary damages which equates to a sale of jobs. Unless we could write something into the contract that directly affects the operation of our JV partners (good luck with that) I don't see any other "remedy" as realistically achievable.
And for the above reason, it is already a good business decision to violate the contract. Corporations are people too, right? If they know that a violation will not be resolved for 3 or 4 years, that is a lot of coin in the bank that can be invested/leveraged to cover any reasonable damages they can expect to incur. Again, the cards are squarely stacked against us on these kinds of issues. However, I would still have the lawsuit paperwork ready to go as soon as the violation "occurs".
And for the above reason, it is already a good business decision to violate the contract. Corporations are people too, right? If they know that a violation will not be resolved for 3 or 4 years, that is a lot of coin in the bank that can be invested/leveraged to cover any reasonable damages they can expect to incur. Again, the cards are squarely stacked against us on these kinds of issues. However, I would still have the lawsuit paperwork ready to go as soon as the violation "occurs".
If the only remedy/penalty is a financial one lets make them pay dearly. Since our ALPA money folks are so sharp let them calculate the fine. Count every flight that the Big D made that was out of compliance. Someone somewhere surely knows the revenue generated by each flight. Flights X revenue = Big money fine.
07-23-2014 | 06:27 AM
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
Some might find it odd for me to be speaking past acl65pilot here, but this post and those that follow are instructive of his naked political double and triple speak. If you weren't reading closely, you might miss the Bill Clinton impersonation in this non-response to tsquare:
Isn't that special? He's not saying he disagrees with tsquare...but does that mean he agrees with tsquare? It means yes and no. It means nothing and everything.
"I'd" is the contraction for "I would". So acl65pilot would tell tsquare to write his reps. Is acl65pilot suggesting that tsquare write his reps, or just that he would tell him to do that for some reason. It means write or don't write, nothing and everything.
A college level example of political double speak.
Carl
Isn't that special? He's not saying he disagrees with tsquare...but does that mean he agrees with tsquare? It means yes and no. It means nothing and everything.
"I'd" is the contraction for "I would". So acl65pilot would tell tsquare to write his reps. Is acl65pilot suggesting that tsquare write his reps, or just that he would tell him to do that for some reason. It means write or don't write, nothing and everything.
A college level example of political double speak.
Carl
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