Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-31-2014 | 04:33 PM
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From: JFK A-330 A
[QUOTE=tsquare;1696282]Well, first of all, the union guys will say that we are not out of compliance... yet. But we will be. The question is how to make us whole without selling those jobs for money. I do not have a good answer for that.
How about adding one day of vacation, for all pilots, effective the first day of violation, per week of violation? Each week that DAL has not been in compliance, more time off.
How about adding one day of vacation, for all pilots, effective the first day of violation, per week of violation? Each week that DAL has not been in compliance, more time off.
07-31-2014 | 04:52 PM
No longer cares
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From: 767er Captain
07-31-2014 | 04:55 PM
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From: Permanently scarred
07-31-2014 | 05:23 PM
seeing the country...
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From: 73N A
And if not enough leave?
Realistically, the senior Captains are getting plenty of vacation, fly good trips and can drop their trips if they want time off.
Why would they leave so they can buy their own insurance and take a 100% paycut?
Sure - I bet Delta will give them as an early out 6 months of pay or so, maybe $20K in medical. But like George in Seinfeld said, "if I stay, I get it all" - 12 months of pay a year and subsidized medical.
Realistically, the senior Captains are getting plenty of vacation, fly good trips and can drop their trips if they want time off.
Why would they leave so they can buy their own insurance and take a 100% paycut?
Sure - I bet Delta will give them as an early out 6 months of pay or so, maybe $20K in medical. But like George in Seinfeld said, "if I stay, I get it all" - 12 months of pay a year and subsidized medical.
07-31-2014 | 05:29 PM
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From: Light Chop
10 B773s x 30 pilots + 58 A330s x 25 pilots per plane = 1750 new pilots.
That's like 900 new Captain positions.
07-31-2014 | 05:36 PM
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From: 7er
07-31-2014 | 05:38 PM
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From: Light Chop
And if not enough leave?
Realistically, the senior Captain are getting plenty of vacation, fly good trips and can drop their trips if they want time off.
Why would they leave so they can buy their own insurance and take a 100% paycut?
Sure - I bet Delta will give them 6 months of pay or so, maybe $20K in medical. But like George in Seinfeld said, "if I stay, I get it all".
Realistically, the senior Captain are getting plenty of vacation, fly good trips and can drop their trips if they want time off.
Why would they leave so they can buy their own insurance and take a 100% paycut?
Sure - I bet Delta will give them 6 months of pay or so, maybe $20K in medical. But like George in Seinfeld said, "if I stay, I get it all".
And you're going to be convinced to go down to $0 and retire early?? You'd be crazy. I guess you could do a practice run and put your trips on the swap board and see what a month of zero pay feels like but I doubt anyone would do that.
07-31-2014 | 05:41 PM
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From: DAL A320 CA
And if not enough leave?
Realistically, the senior Captains are getting plenty of vacation, fly good trips and can drop their trips if they want time off.
Why would they leave so they can buy their own insurance and take a 100% paycut?
Sure - I bet Delta will give them as an early out 6 months of pay or so, maybe $20K in medical. But like George in Seinfeld said, "if I stay, I get it all" - 12 months of pay a year and subsidized medical.
Realistically, the senior Captains are getting plenty of vacation, fly good trips and can drop their trips if they want time off.
Why would they leave so they can buy their own insurance and take a 100% paycut?
Sure - I bet Delta will give them as an early out 6 months of pay or so, maybe $20K in medical. But like George in Seinfeld said, "if I stay, I get it all" - 12 months of pay a year and subsidized medical.
Then they should be displaced before the fence comes down as specified by our current PWA..nothing like going to training for a pay cut and a couple weeks on Virginia Ave to motivate somebody on the fence with the green pastures of a frozen DB retirement waiting for them on the other side.
No more special deals for the company...if they want to throw 4 747's in the boneyard after refurbishing the interiors, then they can deal with the training costs. If those costs are too much to swallow, then 25% of the 74 guys can get paid fishing for Walleye on Leach Lake. I've already been displaced 3 times, been furloughed and made 5 extra unplanned trips to the schoolhouse..no big deal. We've all survived the elimination of the MD11, L1011, 767-2, 727, 737-3/3G/2, 74-2 and DC-9..what's a couple more 74's? Let's see how many senior 74A's want to say "scattered, smothered and covered"?
No deals..no accommodations..let's see what happens when the company has to deal with 300 training events.
That's our leverage.
Last edited by CGfalconHerc; 07-31-2014 at 06:26 PM.
07-31-2014 | 05:46 PM
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From: Sitting SC at the Five Towns
Where did you get disparagement from my post? And, technically, replacing 16 747's with 10 777's would mean job losses.
07-31-2014 | 05:48 PM
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From: right for a long, long time
Short answer: no, of course not.
Long answer: that depends. first of all we are faced with an inexcapable version of exactly that scenario at all levels of our flying in every theatre. The yield trashers/capacity dumpers are about to go bat dung crazy flooding markets and from EK to JB they are counting on DL to gift them capacity to keep our YoY profit growth up. It is a collision course with reality and we will either have to fight that battle or slowly go away.
True, but the rub with this particular scenario was the panic chaotic urgency which it came about. Literally a coupld days after releasing bids based on keeping them, and hours before the bid closed, 1/4 of the fleet was suddenly parked. In the same breath they talk about growth in Asia.
Now, maybe we're parking 4 (soon all) 747's to replace all that lift with smaller planes like the 330. Fine, whatever. Less hourly pay but way more pilot jobs. But that doesn't seem to be the case because that's a lot of lift to be parked immediately, and only possibly replaced by future RFP's many years down the road. Those 330's that were supposed to be "growth" suddenly aren't anymore. What's next?
Are we shrinking to accomodate EK/etc growth? Making room for some failed pathetic government welfare case like Skymark by piling on our corporate charity at our pilots' expense? What's going on? Its a theatre poised for massive growth (much of it fake Keynesian growth that won't pan out, but there most certainlly is still growth potential there) or are we funding irrational competitors with capacity charity at our expense?
With all the "suddenly available" lift from the Atlantic seasonal pull down, how will that lift be replaced in time for the next upswing when we will only have a couple more 330's by then? Or do we plan on yielding that to our "partners" too? It seems like we could be getting set up for a huge in our face "grieve it, punk!" production balance where they just continue to gut the cure period evem more instead of actually curing anything, and then say "what are you going to do about it?" at the end and use it as leverage to baseline down whatever remedy they end up offering because hey, at least its something?
Displacing those positions would have a similar training waterfall effect as staffing them, at least for a while. Not to mention potential no freeze double bids, paid moves, etc.
The timing of this announcement, blatantly sugar coated on the front end with "good news" about first time captains and all that, just smells like a rat the more you sniff it. Something it up and this is only a small part of it.
Long answer: that depends. first of all we are faced with an inexcapable version of exactly that scenario at all levels of our flying in every theatre. The yield trashers/capacity dumpers are about to go bat dung crazy flooding markets and from EK to JB they are counting on DL to gift them capacity to keep our YoY profit growth up. It is a collision course with reality and we will either have to fight that battle or slowly go away.
True, but the rub with this particular scenario was the panic chaotic urgency which it came about. Literally a coupld days after releasing bids based on keeping them, and hours before the bid closed, 1/4 of the fleet was suddenly parked. In the same breath they talk about growth in Asia.
Now, maybe we're parking 4 (soon all) 747's to replace all that lift with smaller planes like the 330. Fine, whatever. Less hourly pay but way more pilot jobs. But that doesn't seem to be the case because that's a lot of lift to be parked immediately, and only possibly replaced by future RFP's many years down the road. Those 330's that were supposed to be "growth" suddenly aren't anymore. What's next?
Are we shrinking to accomodate EK/etc growth? Making room for some failed pathetic government welfare case like Skymark by piling on our corporate charity at our pilots' expense? What's going on? Its a theatre poised for massive growth (much of it fake Keynesian growth that won't pan out, but there most certainlly is still growth potential there) or are we funding irrational competitors with capacity charity at our expense?
With all the "suddenly available" lift from the Atlantic seasonal pull down, how will that lift be replaced in time for the next upswing when we will only have a couple more 330's by then? Or do we plan on yielding that to our "partners" too? It seems like we could be getting set up for a huge in our face "grieve it, punk!" production balance where they just continue to gut the cure period evem more instead of actually curing anything, and then say "what are you going to do about it?" at the end and use it as leverage to baseline down whatever remedy they end up offering because hey, at least its something?
Displacing those positions would have a similar training waterfall effect as staffing them, at least for a while. Not to mention potential no freeze double bids, paid moves, etc.
The timing of this announcement, blatantly sugar coated on the front end with "good news" about first time captains and all that, just smells like a rat the more you sniff it. Something it up and this is only a small part of it.
I think the "excess capacity" will come from no more planes in mod lines and the addition of the 330's. I bet it will still be block hour growth YOY, but with 4 less planes from the top of the food chain*. We're just cogs in the machine, making the most of the situation. Here's to hoping for a 777 order in this next 50!
*Queue T with a LBP comment (and rightfully so in this instance).
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