Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-02-2014, 08:36 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by scambo1
I want to stop the insanity first. I hope Heide's letter opened your eyes a little. Our union is fighting against us. Therein lies some of the insanity.
I know it's difficult to believe, because we all want to believe our national union actually wants the best for us. They want what's best for ALPA and that lays directly at the feet of Mr. Moak. Right now everyone assumes Delta will vote unanimously for Moak again. Let your reps know that you don't support Moak if that's what you think. We'll have plenty of reps that will vote for Moak regardless. We need more reps to stand up against the little dictator.
Carl
08-02-2014, 08:37 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by iceman49
February 15, 2008
John McCain and the pilots
Sen. John McCain may have the Republican party nomination wrapped up, but he still has some convincing to do with one group of traditionally Republican voters. No, I'm not talking about evangelical Christians - I'm talking about commercial airline pilots.
McCain co-sponsored legislation in 2003 that would have changed the Railway Labor Act to include mandatory "baseball-style" arbitration in airline contract negotiations. That's a method whereby a mediator makes the final decision on disputed issues, and there is no appeal. Unions have long opposed any attempts to force that type of arbitration, because it removes their greatest form of leverage - the ability to strike.
McCain's 2003 effort failed, but lots of pilots still remember it. One told me recently that he will never vote for the Arizona senator, and he believes many of his colleagues feel the same way.
"Look, most pilots are ex-military, they're professionals, most of them vote Republican and have all their lives," the pilot said. "But when it comes to McCain, most of us all remember how he backed airline management and tried to screw the pilots. That's going to cost him some votes."
- Trebor
John McCain and the pilots
Sen. John McCain may have the Republican party nomination wrapped up, but he still has some convincing to do with one group of traditionally Republican voters. No, I'm not talking about evangelical Christians - I'm talking about commercial airline pilots.McCain co-sponsored legislation in 2003 that would have changed the Railway Labor Act to include mandatory "baseball-style" arbitration in airline contract negotiations. That's a method whereby a mediator makes the final decision on disputed issues, and there is no appeal. Unions have long opposed any attempts to force that type of arbitration, because it removes their greatest form of leverage - the ability to strike.
McCain's 2003 effort failed, but lots of pilots still remember it. One told me recently that he will never vote for the Arizona senator, and he believes many of his colleagues feel the same way.
"Look, most pilots are ex-military, they're professionals, most of them vote Republican and have all their lives," the pilot said. "But when it comes to McCain, most of us all remember how he backed airline management and tried to screw the pilots. That's going to cost him some votes."
- Trebor
08-02-2014, 08:40 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by scambo1
Great movie line from a director you dislike.
I agree. From probably year 2 at dal, I thought and said the db should be in our individual names, not some pool for the group. A friend of mine who was the CEO of ge capital Europe asked me two years prior to bankruptcy "when is delta going to declare bankruptcy?" ALPA EF&A never mentioned that.
As a group we are disengaged. We do what we are told without further consideration...as a group. We defer to those who tell us what to do. This still goes on. That's insanity.
We pee away any leverage that falls in our lap and accept what is given to us. We get insulted and mismanaged and don't ask why. We are the only zero defect employee group.
It's not only about money, but it seems like money is all we seek. We don't enforce the contract we are required to live under. I don't get it and never will.
I agree. From probably year 2 at dal, I thought and said the db should be in our individual names, not some pool for the group. A friend of mine who was the CEO of ge capital Europe asked me two years prior to bankruptcy "when is delta going to declare bankruptcy?" ALPA EF&A never mentioned that.
As a group we are disengaged. We do what we are told without further consideration...as a group. We defer to those who tell us what to do. This still goes on. That's insanity.
We pee away any leverage that falls in our lap and accept what is given to us. We get insulted and mismanaged and don't ask why. We are the only zero defect employee group.
It's not only about money, but it seems like money is all we seek. We don't enforce the contract we are required to live under. I don't get it and never will.
75% of the pilots (and yes I made up that number, but I can guarantee you that it is a large one) don't care about the day to day stuff that goes on at DAL and especially here on these forums. They just don't. They come to work, do the job, and go home. Our contract, contrary to what some like to say, is not onerous. We are not mistreated, and compared to most of the country we are very well paid. That's it.
And as far as Tarrantion goes, even a blind squirrel....
08-02-2014, 08:40 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Originally Posted by GunshipGuy
Did they make fewer and shorter PAs?
08-02-2014, 08:41 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 7ERB
Posts: 2,039
Originally Posted by iceman49
February 15, 2008
John McCain and the pilots
Sen. John McCain may have the Republican party nomination wrapped up, but he still has some convincing to do with one group of traditionally Republican voters. No, I'm not talking about evangelical Christians - I'm talking about commercial airline pilots.
McCain co-sponsored legislation in 2003 that would have changed the Railway Labor Act to include mandatory "baseball-style" arbitration in airline contract negotiations. That's a method whereby a mediator makes the final decision on disputed issues, and there is no appeal. Unions have long opposed any attempts to force that type of arbitration, because it removes their greatest form of leverage - the ability to strike.
McCain's 2003 effort failed, but lots of pilots still remember it. One told me recently that he will never vote for the Arizona senator, and he believes many of his colleagues feel the same way.
"Look, most pilots are ex-military, they're professionals, most of them vote Republican and have all their lives," the pilot said. "But when it comes to McCain, most of us all remember how he backed airline management and tried to screw the pilots. That's going to cost him some votes."
- Trebor
John McCain and the pilots
Sen. John McCain may have the Republican party nomination wrapped up, but he still has some convincing to do with one group of traditionally Republican voters. No, I'm not talking about evangelical Christians - I'm talking about commercial airline pilots.McCain co-sponsored legislation in 2003 that would have changed the Railway Labor Act to include mandatory "baseball-style" arbitration in airline contract negotiations. That's a method whereby a mediator makes the final decision on disputed issues, and there is no appeal. Unions have long opposed any attempts to force that type of arbitration, because it removes their greatest form of leverage - the ability to strike.
McCain's 2003 effort failed, but lots of pilots still remember it. One told me recently that he will never vote for the Arizona senator, and he believes many of his colleagues feel the same way.
"Look, most pilots are ex-military, they're professionals, most of them vote Republican and have all their lives," the pilot said. "But when it comes to McCain, most of us all remember how he backed airline management and tried to screw the pilots. That's going to cost him some votes."
- Trebor
TEN
08-02-2014, 08:41 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 770
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Even if you could get past the near impossibility of how you would realistically transition to your longevity based pay system, it ignores what I think would be a devastating impact on jobs. Specifically, it would incentivize the company to buy larger aircraft since we would have taken pay based on revenue production out of the equation. Further, it would make our smaller aircraft relatively more expensive to operate thus putting more pressure on outsourcing the bottom end. These two points add a compounding effect to job destruction.
With our current system, we are seeing a reduction in large aircraft which means pilots will be displaced to lower paying positions. I get that. But it's requiring more jobs. If I had to choose between higher pay for fewer jobs, or slightly lower pay for many more jobs...I choose the latter.
Carl
With our current system, we are seeing a reduction in large aircraft which means pilots will be displaced to lower paying positions. I get that. But it's requiring more jobs. If I had to choose between higher pay for fewer jobs, or slightly lower pay for many more jobs...I choose the latter.
Carl
If the 744 does longer trips that require more 4 pilot crews than whatever replaces it, the problem is more than losing a higher paying aircraft.
Long 4 pilot crew trips make for more efficient months and arguably better working conditions (longer or more breaks, less legs).
Pay banding addresses pay, but not the other advantages long haul offers.
08-02-2014, 08:42 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 7ERB
Posts: 2,039
Originally Posted by casual observer
I don't know how much of the 744 flying is 4 pilot vs. 3 pilot or what that ratio would be for replacement A330's.
If the 744 does longer trips that require more 4 pilot crews than whatever replaces it, the problem is more than losing a higher paying aircraft.
Long 4 pilot crew trips make for more efficient months and arguably better working conditions (longer or more breaks, less legs).
Pay banding addresses pay, but not the other advantages long haul offers.
If the 744 does longer trips that require more 4 pilot crews than whatever replaces it, the problem is more than losing a higher paying aircraft.
Long 4 pilot crew trips make for more efficient months and arguably better working conditions (longer or more breaks, less legs).
Pay banding addresses pay, but not the other advantages long haul offers.
TEN
08-02-2014, 08:45 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by scambo1
5% of Americans have a net worth greater than $1 million. 35% of Americans have savings greater than $40k. Sad sad sad. People have chosen to be enslaved...chosen.
You are absolutely right. It is a choice. I am just tired of being told it is MY responsibility to bail them out.
08-02-2014, 08:46 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,275
Originally Posted by casual observer
I don't know how much of the 744 flying is 4 pilot vs. 3 pilot or what that ratio would be for replacement A330's.
If the 744 does longer trips that require more 4 pilot crews than whatever replaces it, the problem is more than losing a higher paying aircraft.
Long 4 pilot crew trips make for more efficient months and arguably better working conditions (longer or more breaks, less legs).
Pay banding addresses pay, but not the other advantages long haul offers.
If the 744 does longer trips that require more 4 pilot crews than whatever replaces it, the problem is more than losing a higher paying aircraft.
Long 4 pilot crew trips make for more efficient months and arguably better working conditions (longer or more breaks, less legs).
Pay banding addresses pay, but not the other advantages long haul offers.
08-02-2014, 08:47 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 7ERB
Posts: 2,039
Originally Posted by tsquare
Well it's because they have zero self discipline. Credit cards are plentiful and easy to obtain. THAT is slavery. And we have a government that has accelerated the enslavement of the populace by increasing that fiscal irresponsibility 4 fold... (and counting)
You are absolutely right. It is a choice. I am just tired of being told it is MY responsibility to bail them out.
You are absolutely right. It is a choice. I am just tired of being told it is MY responsibility to bail them out.
"If 10% is enough for GOD, 10% is enough for the IRS"
This is the solution for all of our problems. I even think 8% will do the trick..
TEN
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