Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1760438)

You did not understand the data.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1760438)

I was just emailed more numbers but they match what I posted.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1760545)

The above is verbatim from the MEC meeting.

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1760554)

Thanks to sailing and georgetg for trying to clarify this important topic. My question is: why do we have to rely on sailing and georgtg, to clarify this important topic?

I would expect this to be a matter of record, and the facts to be unimpeachable, and easily accessible. Either I'm so lazy that I missed the appropriate data as it was published (entirely possible), or the data isn't published in an easily accessible format. I think I've read every piece that was put out on this topic, but I've never developed a current, clear picture on where we stand, and where we're going, with respect to the North Atlantic JV.

Originally Posted by Purple Drank (Post 1760547)

Why not make a comment on it? Why not state that the company is ignoring the contract? You always claim to be the "voice of reason" here.

Apparently you are only "objective" when it helps to helps management. :rolleyes:

Again, I ask: whose side are you on? Never mind. It's pretty obvious.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1760391)

Again down to 47% from what Carl?
46%?

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1760436)

All correct. I have no idea however what the above has to do with Carl's statements. He stated we have been reducing our flying percentage while AK/KLM were increasing theirs. I simply replied to that. It's not a true statement.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1760590)

Down from 50.05%. That was the high water mark for Delta pilots in this Joint Venture and it occurred in the measurement period that ended in March 31, 2011.

With our high point of 50.05%, it means the Euro's at that time held 49.95%. Now Delta pilots are down to approximately 47% of the EASK's...that's a reduction. Now the Euro's are up to approximately 53% of the EASK's...that's an increase.

This is simply not arguable. It's verifiable mathematics.

Carl

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1760473)

Carl, you're both right. Our percentage of EASK's is certainly below that which it is required to be.

Sailingfun's point, and I understand him to be correct, is that our percentage of EASK's is almost exactly what it was just prior to AZ joining the JV and the 50% requirement being established. Delta had plans at the time to increase its flying to Europe to about 50%, and wanted to set the requirement at that level, but the softening of the trans-Atlantic market almost immediately thereafter made them change their minds.

I'm not saying that this excuses their non-compliance, only that the PWA requires a higher percentage of flying than actually existed just prior to the JV.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1760594)

Again Carl you stated we reduced our flying while AF/KLM increased theirs. You implied that was at our expense. That is not true. Go read bars last posted document. Our share of the flying relative to AF/KLM has been so close over the years as to be virtually unchanged.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1760597)

No Alan, we're not both right. Please see above.

In the beginning we were essentially at 50%/50%. Now we're at 47%/53%. Delta pilot's EASK's are down, Euro pilot's EASK's are up. Sailingfun vehemently disagrees with me on this. We can't both be right.

Carl

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1760551)

To be clear, the baseline allocation for Delta was changed when AZ was added to the JV in 2011. Prior to that, when it was just AF/KLM, Delta was required to maintain at least 49.95% of the 3 airlines' combined flying for the first 2 measurement periods (ending March 31, 2011 and 2012) and at least 50.2% for each subsequent measurement period.

Apparently, we were in compliance during that time.

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1760551)

When AZ was added to the JV, our actual percentage of flying of the now 4 combined airlines was around 47%. The original AF/KLM JV had provided that, were another airline to be added to the mix, the baseline allocation would be adjusted to reflect the actual balance of flying at the time.

For whatever reason (presumably because they had planned to grow), Delta agreed to a minimum required percentage of 48.5%, rather than the 47% at which they actually were operating at the time.

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1760551)

I haven't seen any excuses as to why Delta is not operating those flights, other than that they feel they cannot do so profitably, nor should that matter to us. They are contractually required to operate them, and they have not. Period.