Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
One of the arguments made to me awhile back from a Captain that is all into the market is that he would rather have to money NOW and invest it at his whim versus depending on the performance of the company. There are those out there, day traders, etc. that would definitely go down that path. Just wondering if one of them is not responsible for this "make believe" posturing that we are hearing. Personally, I invest in snake oil and SPAM contracts...
Concessionary bargaining is a relatively new phenomenon. But we have many pilots today that have never experienced anything but. In today's environment, concessions should not even be contemplated...only the amount of the gains. Since Delta pilots lead the industry in not one single section of our contract, we can make gains in all sections and keep the NMB happy. If we weren't a non-union shop that is.
Carl
While C2k may have been the high bar for certain metrics, all of which I endorse, it may not be the end all be all in every area.
Personally, I'm in favor of cherry picking the best parts of everyone's contracts. A parochial mentality leaves a lot of potential goodies on the table.
For example: under the NWA contract, if you flew over 8.5 hours block domestically, you were automatically entitled to 12 hours rest.
This was a great example of a real world negotiated solution to a serious shortfall in the FARS (at the time). If you went over 8.5 domestically, that meant something got really messed up, and you were probably beat like a dog.
No begging to Crew Tracking...no "let me transfer you to the Duty Pilot" and no dancing around the "F" word....you got your 12 hours to recoup and get a hot dinner at Cracker Barrel.
Did it happen that often? Probably not, but when it did, you APPRICIATED it.
Think how much more valuable it would be now that over 8.5 can be regularly scheduled.
My point is that holding up any particular PWA as some kind of golden standard may not apply in all situations. Rather, we should swallow our pride and look for the best that everyone has (or in this case had) to offer.
Nu
Personally, I'm in favor of cherry picking the best parts of everyone's contracts. A parochial mentality leaves a lot of potential goodies on the table.
For example: under the NWA contract, if you flew over 8.5 hours block domestically, you were automatically entitled to 12 hours rest.
This was a great example of a real world negotiated solution to a serious shortfall in the FARS (at the time). If you went over 8.5 domestically, that meant something got really messed up, and you were probably beat like a dog.
No begging to Crew Tracking...no "let me transfer you to the Duty Pilot" and no dancing around the "F" word....you got your 12 hours to recoup and get a hot dinner at Cracker Barrel.
Did it happen that often? Probably not, but when it did, you APPRICIATED it.
Think how much more valuable it would be now that over 8.5 can be regularly scheduled.
My point is that holding up any particular PWA as some kind of golden standard may not apply in all situations. Rather, we should swallow our pride and look for the best that everyone has (or in this case had) to offer.
Nu
Management doesn't want to give up the money that is about to be required from the profits that are about to come. They have that forecast...we don't. This is why any foot dragging could inure to our benefit.
Carl
While C2k may have been the high bar for certain metrics, all of which I endorse, it may not be the end all be all in every area.
Personally, I'm in favor of cherry picking the best parts of everyone's contracts. A parochial mentality leaves a lot of potential goodies on the table.
For example: under the NWA contract, if you flew over 8.5 hours block domestically, you were automatically entitled to 12 hours rest.
This was a great example of a real world negotiated solution to a serious shortfall in the FARS (at the time). If you went over 8.5 domestically, that meant something got really messed up, and you were probably beat like a dog.
No begging to Crew Tracking...no "let me transfer you to the Duty Pilot" and no dancing around the "F" word....you got your 12 hours to recoup and get a hot dinner at Cracker Barrel.
Did it happen that often? Probably not, but when it did, you APPRICIATED it.
Think how much more valuable it would be now that over 8.5 can be regularly scheduled.
My point is that holding up any particular PWA as some kind of golden standard may not apply in all situations. Rather, we should swallow our pride and look for the best that everyone has (or in this case had) to offer.
Nu
Personally, I'm in favor of cherry picking the best parts of everyone's contracts. A parochial mentality leaves a lot of potential goodies on the table.
For example: under the NWA contract, if you flew over 8.5 hours block domestically, you were automatically entitled to 12 hours rest.
This was a great example of a real world negotiated solution to a serious shortfall in the FARS (at the time). If you went over 8.5 domestically, that meant something got really messed up, and you were probably beat like a dog.
No begging to Crew Tracking...no "let me transfer you to the Duty Pilot" and no dancing around the "F" word....you got your 12 hours to recoup and get a hot dinner at Cracker Barrel.
Did it happen that often? Probably not, but when it did, you APPRICIATED it.
Think how much more valuable it would be now that over 8.5 can be regularly scheduled.
My point is that holding up any particular PWA as some kind of golden standard may not apply in all situations. Rather, we should swallow our pride and look for the best that everyone has (or in this case had) to offer.
Nu
Leading in every section (even if just marginally) would be a great overall contract.
Carl
Delta C2K was the finest contract ALPA and this industry have and may ever produce.
Two incontrovertible truths:
1. Everything of which we have been disposessed from C2K is a concession.
2. Everything which we posess in lieu of C2K is a concession.
The argument that handing Profit Sharing back to managment with a polite no thank you is a concession is not even ironic. Its duplicitous.
Yet, somehow that is the narrative has been submitted by the counterarguments to ALPA initiatives to restore our profession. Not surpisingly, it is the agrument submitted by the select few who have managed to turn contractual concessions to their advantage. Worse, they seek to pospone remedy to those concessions because they benefit in the near term by continuation.
ALPA should have conrfronted their concessionary narrative with argument similar to mine above, supported the restoration of C2K contract provisions IN FULL and defined with certainty the necesssity to return profit sharing back to the source it came from if contract and career restoration is truly the objective.
Playing the waiting game....
TJG
Two incontrovertible truths:
1. Everything of which we have been disposessed from C2K is a concession.
2. Everything which we posess in lieu of C2K is a concession.
The argument that handing Profit Sharing back to managment with a polite no thank you is a concession is not even ironic. Its duplicitous.
Yet, somehow that is the narrative has been submitted by the counterarguments to ALPA initiatives to restore our profession. Not surpisingly, it is the agrument submitted by the select few who have managed to turn contractual concessions to their advantage. Worse, they seek to pospone remedy to those concessions because they benefit in the near term by continuation.
ALPA should have conrfronted their concessionary narrative with argument similar to mine above, supported the restoration of C2K contract provisions IN FULL and defined with certainty the necesssity to return profit sharing back to the source it came from if contract and career restoration is truly the objective.
Playing the waiting game....
TJG
Before you got banned, I urged you to keep quiet for a while and listen. There's still time for you, but posts like this don't help.
Carl
Carl
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,524
I'm sure that's not what you meant, but we need to be very defensive over what is quite often a highly subjective front burner safety issue.
I'm sure there are a few abusers or whatever. Maybe even some that are obvious. But it ain't nowhere near 2000 of us. There's 52 weekends a year plus a lot of holidays sprinkled into almost every month. Any sick call can be painted as "suspicious" if you try hard enough. If they want to offer a voluntary sellback system or perhaps change the yearly reset to your hire date (as someone mentioned) fine. But we shouldn't allow, much less partner with, any effort to reduce or hassle hundreds to perhaps thousands of our own over a basic subjective safety issue.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,569
Anybody see Hawaiians stock today
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