Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-30-2015 | 08:51 AM
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From: 747-400 Captain
Management doesn't want to give up the money that is about to be required from the profits that are about to come. They have that forecast...we don't. This is why any foot dragging could inure to our benefit.
Carl
01-30-2015 | 08:55 AM
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From: 747-400 Captain
While C2k may have been the high bar for certain metrics, all of which I endorse, it may not be the end all be all in every area.
Personally, I'm in favor of cherry picking the best parts of everyone's contracts. A parochial mentality leaves a lot of potential goodies on the table.
For example: under the NWA contract, if you flew over 8.5 hours block domestically, you were automatically entitled to 12 hours rest.
This was a great example of a real world negotiated solution to a serious shortfall in the FARS (at the time). If you went over 8.5 domestically, that meant something got really messed up, and you were probably beat like a dog.
No begging to Crew Tracking...no "let me transfer you to the Duty Pilot" and no dancing around the "F" word....you got your 12 hours to recoup and get a hot dinner at Cracker Barrel.
Did it happen that often? Probably not, but when it did, you APPRICIATED it.
Think how much more valuable it would be now that over 8.5 can be regularly scheduled.
My point is that holding up any particular PWA as some kind of golden standard may not apply in all situations. Rather, we should swallow our pride and look for the best that everyone has (or in this case had) to offer.
Nu
Personally, I'm in favor of cherry picking the best parts of everyone's contracts. A parochial mentality leaves a lot of potential goodies on the table.
For example: under the NWA contract, if you flew over 8.5 hours block domestically, you were automatically entitled to 12 hours rest.
This was a great example of a real world negotiated solution to a serious shortfall in the FARS (at the time). If you went over 8.5 domestically, that meant something got really messed up, and you were probably beat like a dog.
No begging to Crew Tracking...no "let me transfer you to the Duty Pilot" and no dancing around the "F" word....you got your 12 hours to recoup and get a hot dinner at Cracker Barrel.
Did it happen that often? Probably not, but when it did, you APPRICIATED it.
Think how much more valuable it would be now that over 8.5 can be regularly scheduled.
My point is that holding up any particular PWA as some kind of golden standard may not apply in all situations. Rather, we should swallow our pride and look for the best that everyone has (or in this case had) to offer.
Nu
Leading in every section (even if just marginally) would be a great overall contract.
Carl
01-30-2015 | 09:03 AM
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From: 747-400 Captain
Delta C2K was the finest contract ALPA and this industry have and may ever produce.
Two incontrovertible truths:
1. Everything of which we have been disposessed from C2K is a concession.
2. Everything which we posess in lieu of C2K is a concession.
The argument that handing Profit Sharing back to managment with a polite no thank you is a concession is not even ironic. Its duplicitous.
Yet, somehow that is the narrative has been submitted by the counterarguments to ALPA initiatives to restore our profession. Not surpisingly, it is the agrument submitted by the select few who have managed to turn contractual concessions to their advantage. Worse, they seek to pospone remedy to those concessions because they benefit in the near term by continuation.
ALPA should have conrfronted their concessionary narrative with argument similar to mine above, supported the restoration of C2K contract provisions IN FULL and defined with certainty the necesssity to return profit sharing back to the source it came from if contract and career restoration is truly the objective.
Playing the waiting game....
TJG
Two incontrovertible truths:
1. Everything of which we have been disposessed from C2K is a concession.
2. Everything which we posess in lieu of C2K is a concession.
The argument that handing Profit Sharing back to managment with a polite no thank you is a concession is not even ironic. Its duplicitous.
Yet, somehow that is the narrative has been submitted by the counterarguments to ALPA initiatives to restore our profession. Not surpisingly, it is the agrument submitted by the select few who have managed to turn contractual concessions to their advantage. Worse, they seek to pospone remedy to those concessions because they benefit in the near term by continuation.
ALPA should have conrfronted their concessionary narrative with argument similar to mine above, supported the restoration of C2K contract provisions IN FULL and defined with certainty the necesssity to return profit sharing back to the source it came from if contract and career restoration is truly the objective.
Playing the waiting game....
TJG
Before you got banned, I urged you to keep quiet for a while and listen. There's still time for you, but posts like this don't help.
Carl
01-30-2015 | 09:05 AM
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From: 747-400 Captain
01-30-2015 | 09:12 AM
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From: 747-400 Captain
Carl
01-30-2015 | 09:19 AM
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I'm sure that's not what you meant, but we need to be very defensive over what is quite often a highly subjective front burner safety issue.
I'm sure there are a few abusers or whatever. Maybe even some that are obvious. But it ain't nowhere near 2000 of us. There's 52 weekends a year plus a lot of holidays sprinkled into almost every month. Any sick call can be painted as "suspicious" if you try hard enough. If they want to offer a voluntary sellback system or perhaps change the yearly reset to your hire date (as someone mentioned) fine. But we shouldn't allow, much less partner with, any effort to reduce or hassle hundreds to perhaps thousands of our own over a basic subjective safety issue.
01-30-2015 | 09:33 AM
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Anybody see Hawaiians stock today��
01-30-2015 | 09:34 AM
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From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
So we should hope the company starts "going after" almost 2000 of our pilots?
I'm sure that's not what you meant, but we need to be very defensive over what is quite often a highly subjective front burner safety issue.
I'm sure there are a few abusers or whatever. Maybe even some that are obvious. But it ain't nowhere near 2000 of us. There's 52 weekends a year plus a lot of holidays sprinkled into almost every month. Any sick call can be painted as "suspicious" if you try hard enough. If they want to offer a voluntary sellback system or perhaps change the yearly reset to your hire date (as someone mentioned) fine. But we shouldn't allow, much less partner with, any effort to reduce or hassle hundreds to perhaps thousands of our own over a basic subjective safety issue.
I'm sure that's not what you meant, but we need to be very defensive over what is quite often a highly subjective front burner safety issue.
I'm sure there are a few abusers or whatever. Maybe even some that are obvious. But it ain't nowhere near 2000 of us. There's 52 weekends a year plus a lot of holidays sprinkled into almost every month. Any sick call can be painted as "suspicious" if you try hard enough. If they want to offer a voluntary sellback system or perhaps change the yearly reset to your hire date (as someone mentioned) fine. But we shouldn't allow, much less partner with, any effort to reduce or hassle hundreds to perhaps thousands of our own over a basic subjective safety issue.
First, as you said, the company needs to prove it. Then, the company needs to address it, with the perpetrators, and leave the rest of us alone.
Why should 100% of us have a reduced benefit for what the company claims is a small percentage who abuse it?
The ATL. CPO told me that management said we use twice as much as the other carriers. Yet the other carriers incentivize it, either through a rollover/bank or a cash payout. No wonder they don't use as much!
But it's an apples to oranges comparison. We have a 'use it or lose it' program, they do not. This company isn't going to go out of business due to 15% of our guys they claim are abusing it. I think it's just some bean counter on the 4th floor's little pet project to crack down on the abuse, so he can justify his job.
01-30-2015 | 09:36 AM
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Market cap at about 1 billion. Buy them with one years profit sharing.
01-30-2015 | 09:38 AM
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If you think it will stop with %15, then you are mistaken. Eliminate those, and the guys in the "new bottom %15" will be the next targets.
Beware the slippery slope.
Nu
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