Captain could just put his entire PS into 401K and he would be at his limit sooner this year and receive his 15% DC into his paycheck and then put that $$ to work for him.

Much of a track record? It's the "style" that brought us to the year 2000 from the beginning of our profession. When Dave Behncke started ALPA way back, the profession was horrible and dangerous. If we had used today's model of gains being offset by concessions, we'd still have a horrid and dangerous profession. Instead, we negotiated for what the gains would be, not the concessions.

Concessionary bargaining is a relatively new phenomenon. But we have many pilots today that have never experienced anything but. In today's environment, concessions should not even be contemplated...only the amount of the gains. Since Delta pilots lead the industry in not one single section of our contract, we can make gains in all sections and keep the NMB happy. If we weren't a non-union shop that is.

Carl

While C2k may have been the high bar for certain metrics, all of which I endorse, it may not be the end all be all in every area.

Personally, I'm in favor of cherry picking the best parts of everyone's contracts. A parochial mentality leaves a lot of potential goodies on the table.

For example: under the NWA contract, if you flew over 8.5 hours block domestically, you were automatically entitled to 12 hours rest.

This was a great example of a real world negotiated solution to a serious shortfall in the FARS (at the time). If you went over 8.5 domestically, that meant something got really messed up, and you were probably beat like a dog.

No begging to Crew Tracking...no "let me transfer you to the Duty Pilot" and no dancing around the "F" word....you got your 12 hours to recoup and get a hot dinner at Cracker Barrel.

Did it happen that often? Probably not, but when it did, you APPRICIATED it.

Think how much more valuable it would be now that over 8.5 can be regularly scheduled.

My point is that holding up any particular PWA as some kind of golden standard may not apply in all situations. Rather, we should swallow our pride and look for the best that everyone has (or in this case had) to offer.

Nu

You're assuming we could monetize pay rates accurately based on unknown future profits. We can't. Even if we tried to err on the side to ensure our pay rates definitely equaled future profit sharing, what possible incentive would there be for management to do that? They would just keep profit sharing where it is.

Management doesn't want to give up the money that is about to be required from the profits that are about to come. They have that forecast...we don't. This is why any foot dragging could inure to our benefit.

Carl

Part of swallowing our collective pride is to understand where Delta pilots are now. Currently, Delta pilots lead the industry in not one single section of our contract. Not one.

Leading in every section (even if just marginally) would be a great overall contract.

Carl

First you come here urging us to give up profit sharing now that it has value. Then you get banned for threatening to out me...in a post I never got to see. Now you're trying to gain credibility by a nearly incoherent post using big words that you're clearly not used to using in proper context?

Before you got banned, I urged you to keep quiet for a while and listen. There's still time for you, but posts like this don't help.

Carl

PRE-CISELY!

Carl

The discussion is happening because management has set forth their friends and partners on the MEC and MEC administration to begin setting the table regarding monetizing profit sharing. There is no question that is happening. Thus the discussion.

Carl

So we should hope the company starts "going after" almost 2000 of our pilots?

I'm sure that's not what you meant, but we need to be very defensive over what is quite often a highly subjective front burner safety issue.

I'm sure there are a few abusers or whatever. Maybe even some that are obvious. But it ain't nowhere near 2000 of us. There's 52 weekends a year plus a lot of holidays sprinkled into almost every month. Any sick call can be painted as "suspicious" if you try hard enough. If they want to offer a voluntary sellback system or perhaps change the yearly reset to your hire date (as someone mentioned) fine. But we shouldn't allow, much less partner with, any effort to reduce or hassle hundreds to perhaps thousands of our own over a basic subjective safety issue.

Anybody see Hawaiians stock today��