As opposed to your world, in which the company never has legitimate concerns, and if you were actually tasked to come up with a real answer to a real issue, you would retreat to a huddled, muttering corner.

There was an ALPA article a few years ago called "The Dos and Don'ts of Negotiating." I felt that it was very well written. One of the "Do's" was "DO realize that negotiating is hard work" (or something similar).

I ask you and every other member of the "just say no" crowd: how could negotiating ever be hard work? All one has to do is draw up a dream sheet, barge into the CEOs office. slam it on the table, and say "let me know when you agree to everything, and we will be back to sign." It truly is that easy, isn't it....?

I don't care who you are, but you laughed at this.

A "constructive idea" would be an admission that this is a worthy discussion. It's not.

Selling sick time entices people to fly sick--bad idea

I also find it distasteful that in some future family emergency, pilots want to ensure they get paid for having to drop a trip that doesn't meet sick time requirements. Never had a problem getting a drop for a family emergency, and I've never expected to get paid for it.

Leaving sick time the way it is, now that is a worthy discussion, unless you want to talk about removing the 100 verified restriction.

I could understand not wanting to burn capital if it was coming but I doubt the Congress will pass that and I think California is the only one with one that is funded. But I think those systems are more complicated than what I was thinking.

What I was thinking along the lines was an exemption that says if you can verify a kid or spouse is hospitalized or parent in hospice you can use sick time even though you're not the one sick.

I know you can pd but it is one thing for a line holder to drop a trip but on reserve making those days back up later is a problem.

Herk,

Come on man. We all know there are a lot of moving parts, but you are dismissing alpa's legitimate failings.

It really is a fair question to ask what do we get for $30+ million a year and/or 1.9% of our pay. Not to mention the further loss, accrued over time, of do it once, do it right. Don't dismiss the failures, it removes credibility.

I am interested in seeing what concessions we are presented with on codeshare, contract, payband, sick leave, profit sharing, seat lock, etc. I expect them because past performance, in the case of ALPA, has been predictive of future results.

That said, I was not a believer that mainline would grow at the expense of DCI and I was wrong.

It's certainly more difficult when you negotiate with yourself from a position of weakness. If we weren't a non-union pilot group, we could open with the position of the same system we have now except 540 hours per year and all of it being unverified. Since the DALPA contract comparison shows that Sick Leave is yet another section where Delta pilots do NOT lead the industry, our final offer would be a system that leads the industry by a modest margin. That by definition would be better than what we have now...thus not a concession. The position is eminently defensible to the NMB since we lead the industry financially and are only asking to modestly lead the industry in every section of our pilot contract. It would be unarguably reasonable.

But the above would require a union. So....

Carl

See, a couple of ideas and actual thoughts on the issue!(Boog and PD take note) I like the plan the way it is too, I don't like the bank idea because of the "I'll fly sick to save the hours" thing. Lessening the verification obligations (or what constitutes verification) would be a step in the right direction.

Over the course of a career at HAL(the highest one per the Contract comparison), 7.5 hours of sick per month x 12 months x 25 years is 2,250 hours of sick leave for your career, but it is bankable. At DAL, you get the use-or-lose that over that same 25 year career would total 5340 hours and under the current plan 2425 of that could be unverified sick leave.

I imagine DAL does have a higher average use of sick leave hours than other companies, because of the "Use-or-lose" provision, but I bet we have a lot less pilots that go to work sick and infect their co-workers. People get sick, pilots have to be in better condition to do their job, per FEDERAL LAW. So I don't really care if we use more, maybe other pilots aren't using enough! If you are sick, stay home!!!

The current plan encourages this behavior, and as such I'd rather not see it change for the worse. I don't agree with the "I can retire a year early and get paid full pay with my sick time" attitude. It's SICK LEAVE, not retirement money.

Why I suggested the 0-50 into the 401k(or maybe your HSA, limits notwithstanding) is for a couple of reasons. I only suggest the first 50 of unverfied, get an 'other proof of illness' for 190 hours each year, they don't have to have a doctor's note.

1. It's mo' money, sooner, (1,250 hours of extra pay over a 25 yr. career)
2. That money can go toward paying for a retiree healthcare plan, and allow pilots to leave sooner.
2. It still leaves the 9-19 year pilots with 190 sick leave hours and the 20+ with 220/year to use.
3. The lifetime sick leave usable hours would still be 4,090, still almost twice what the next closest pilot group gets.

Delta pilots have zero incentive to fly sick, I really don't understand why any still do.

Morning humor is great. Thanks Purp.

But for this interjection of truth, I now put you on my ignore list...you douche! :D

Carl

While we are talking about Sick Leave, how about we negotiate a change to the 50% Long Term Disability too!

It would be nice if our unused sick leave could be saved into some type of a "Catastrophic" sick leave account, only to be used if you were seriously injured and going to be out for many months, like in say, a bad car wreck, or if you got Malaria on a LOS trip, or what ever, and you were obviously "Verified" out sick (like lying in the ICU for a week, with a 6mo. recovery process, or a heart issue, etc).

The way our plan is now, if you've had a few head colds and used some of your 270hrs. and THEN you have a catastrophic event, you'll run out of sick leave toot sweet, and be on 50% disability pay, and THAT SUCKS!

Especially if you are one of the 85% who have never used "all" your sick leave in the past, but now you wish you had some tucked away for that rainy day!

?The whole sick leave/APD/bank discussion you criticize is speculation about changing the program to something the individual thought would be beneficial. Of course we don't really DISCUSS ideas here unless its how to best disparage our representatives. A change we are adequately compensated for isn't a concession, its just a change. We will disagree on the exchange rate and I'm sure no matter what math ALPA uses to value an exchange you will value it differently. BTW, can you really do the math to make our last contract cost neutral? Show me your math because I can't possibly do it without assuming the company saved a bazillion on the RJ refleeting and associated revenue improvements. And I'm pretty good with math. C12 is over; Good luck to us all on C15. OFG