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Originally Posted by Big E 757
(Post 1814339)
Shiz, that was not douchebaggery. He is ABSOLUTELY, 100% right! How did we all get so conditioned to horse trade everything? You want a raise? We want less sick usage. Screw that! We will never again in our careers, yours included, find everything so perfectly aligned and timed to negotiate a historic contract. Why do we feel we are going to have to sacrifice anything?
Now, having said that, I did like your last suggestion on sick leave, we gain some and the company gains a little. Whatever happens, we have to make sure it doesn't encourage anyone to fly while sick though. But yeah, it was douchebaggery. Straight up. FTB and I don't always agree on things, but we don't resort to hurling trite and insulting comments. The "not douchebaggery" response would have looked like this:
Originally Posted by boog123
(Post 1814186)
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
(Post 1814166)
Shiz,let me throw this in the pot. Someone mentioned here being able to trade sick hours as a paid apd for qualified personal drop such as a family medical issue (sick or hospitalized kid, spouse, etc). Something that's verifiable and approved but doesn't meet the definition of you being the one that is sick.
Don't confuse change for improvement, we need to all work together to make sure we don't get "cost neutral" solutions to managements problems, we always want to see small and large strides of improvement and restoration.
Originally Posted by boog123
(Post 1814186)
Just AWESOME. Most profitable time in the airlines history with no end in sight, debt down by 50-70% and you guys are taking about concessions!
No wonder we get "cost neutral" contracts. |
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
(Post 1814418)
But for C2012?
So you want to wait for something that isn't going to happen to happen before we talk about pros and cons of certain concepts? If APC isn't a statistically significant tool and not causing the pilot group to negotiate against itself, then why can't we talk here about the contract again? When I spoke with my LEC guy last week, he was well aware of all the profit sharing/trading for pay raise type talk going on at both places (here and Chitchat). He said they have not even begun to craft our opener yet, but he did say he welcomed the discussion, because now is the best time to start asking these types of questions, BEFORE the opener is written. So, while in total numbers, the guys reading/posting on this board might be a very small percent of our total pilot group (10%?) I think it's a valid sample size, and the MEC is well aware of what we are talking about, they are hearing the same kind of inputs from the guys in the pilot lounge as well, which they were all in last week. |
Today a medical consent form for a procedure had this statement..."Medical practice is not an exact science, things do and will happen." Perhaps a similar statement should be on the pax ticket, substituting "the aviation" for medical!:eek:
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Originally Posted by iceman49
(Post 1814445)
Today a medical consent form for a procedure had this statement..."Medical practice is not an exact science, things do and will happen." Perhaps a similar statement should be on the pax ticket, substituting "the aviation" for medical!:eek:
I turned to her and said, "In about 15 minutes we are all going to find out, but if it's not, you won't feel a thing." :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by Timbo
(Post 1814436)
Many of our LEC guys lurk here, and at TheHangar.forum$hit$hat.com.
When I spoke with my LEC guy last week, he was well aware of all the profit sharing/trading for pay raise type talk going on at both places (here and $hit$hat). He said they have not even begun to craft our opener yet, but he did say he welcomed the discussion, because now is the best time to start asking these types of questions, BEFORE the opener is written. So, while in total numbers, the guys reading/posting on this board might be a very small percent of our total pilot group (10%?) I think it's a valid sample size, and the MEC is well aware of what we are talking about, they are hearing the same kind of inputs from the guys in the pilot lounge as well, which they were all in last week. That place is just awful.. APC is so much more civilized and useful(sans the occasional 'moment'). I went to Hangar Talk once, it's atrocious how guys act and what is said to fellow Delta Pilots. There is supposedly really good gouge on tablet stuff over there though, but I'm not tricking mine out... It's a glorified Company PDF reader, if they want it to have more features, they will install them and pay me 1:2 to learn the new feature. (I'd like to see that go to 1:1). BTW, did you see we all got another :15 of pay for the EFB learning, the Company really came up short on that run time. Thanks ALPA. I've heard the reps are aware of these places too. I hope they don't take it too seriously though. I'd much rather have them utilize the full survey data and back that up with Wilson polling to get more accurate data to gauge pilot sentiment. |
He told me the survey data pretty much agreed with what they were being told in the pilot lounges, and the chitchat board, here, and DPA survey data, i.e. 90% said,
"DO NOT TOUCH PROFIT SHARING!" |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1814104)
New fleet count numbers are out. At the end of 2018 they are projecting 872 mainline airframes. The post merger low was 706 airframes.
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Originally Posted by Timbo
(Post 1814449)
So I'm flying MD88 Capt. and this little old lady boards and sticks her head into the cockpit and asks, "Is this thing SAFE?"
I turned to her and said, "In about 15 minutes we are all going to find out, but if it's not, you won't feel a thing." :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by Sink r8
(Post 1814351)
Both sides published openers for C2K, and I think the same was true for the 1113 proceedings. Regardless, we can ask our reps after openers are exchanged. I just think we're chronologically and philosophically challenged, when we anticipate their needs. Thankfully, APC isn't much of a statistically significant tool, otherwise what we're doing right now is negotiating against ourselves.
Carl |
Originally Posted by flyallnite
(Post 1814034)
You're joking, right? All the other majors have 1000-1300 hours of max accrual, all of which is paid to the employee. Our 270 per year, assuming you've got 20 years of service, goes to disability after what, 6 weeks? No more accrual, and if you don't pay into DPMA, you're getting a 50% pay cut. And what we don't use goes back into company coffers. Good deal for them! Our sick leave policy is not good. The union effectively washed their hands of the obligation to defend usage of sick leave in C12.
If we had Southwest's or American's sick leave policy, I'd be sitting on a pot worth a year and a half's salary right now, including the leave I've used. As far as negotiations, I think most of us feel that what we gave up 10 years ago eliminates the need for any further concessions for the rest of our career. Negotiations are negotiations though and if we look at anything the company may want as a concession we're setting ourselves up to be iced for as long as the company can. Take a look around at the other carriers in contract discussions and see how long they've been at it. |
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