I think we should solve management's issues . After all they are only making over $6 billion this year. And paying debt to $3 billion THIS YEAR.

Thanks EP! As far as changing my avatar, if I wasn't rooting for the Seahawks, I would be for the Patriots. Even though I was born and mostly raised in Washington, my ancestry goes waaaaaaay back in MA starting with parents born in Boston and Lawrence. One grandfather was a motorcycle cop in Boston way back when. The other made wooden barrels down in Harwich. Plus.........I just like that picture!:)

Denny

Herk,

Not sure how long you've been in the industry, but in the eyes of management anything you get is a legitimate concern. You cost too much during the good times and too much during the bad times. No matter how much/little you gain or give. Doesn't matter. I can promise you that if we were to get nothing on this contract(pay raises, work rules, etc), in the next downturn they would be coming after us for 15-20% with threats of ch11. Their playbook does not change. That is why it is so imperative that we get meaningful gains in compensation and give little to nothing during these times. The time will come soon enough for the next ch11 threats. Would you rather give 20% of much higher rates and better work rules, or get a higher rate now, while watering down some work rules to offset the higher rates today? I promise you that they will come for both.

Would it be really weird if we let management determine their own list of wants, and if we then waited until then to discuss their actual wants, as opposed to speculating on what they might want?

Ed,

I just saw exactly what you describe above. It was put out by the company in bar chart format. Had current and forecast, 2018 I think, fleet counts. It broke out domestic and international fleets.

I think it came out via company email that I accessed via the surface. I'm sure one of the smarter guys will point you to exactly where to find it.

Scoop :)

I don't think they publish it for consumption anymore than we do.

I think you can put Fleet 2018 into the delta net search engine and it comes up.

Richard, Ed and Campbell did that. That's why they referred to our contract as "cost neutral" during investment interviews. They went further to state that the savings realized by the pilots contract would allow them to invest in initiatives that benefit other employee groups at Delta.

We could all do that if we had the costing sheets agreed to during negotiations. Management has them and so does DALPA. Neither one will release them. If they did release the costing sheets, we could all do the math and see why it is that our management calls our contract "cost neutral."

Carl

Carl,

OK - so, what is the track record of your sources' reliability on the performance of the Oil Refinery and Fuel Hedging? How about capacity?

Everyone wants to know the future. Unfortunately, forward-looking statements are notoriously unreliable. There are also tremendous variables in how costing data is applied. If money were saved on aircraft maintenance and allocated to pilot pay, the net result could still (arguably) be "cost-neutral."

Shiz, that was not douchebaggery. He is ABSOLUTELY, 100% right! How did we all get so conditioned to horse trade everything? You want a raise? We want less sick usage. Screw that! We will never again in our careers, yours included, find everything so perfectly aligned and timed to negotiate a historic contract. Why do we feel we are going to have to sacrifice anything?

Now, having said that, I did like your last suggestion on sick leave, we gain some and the company gains a little. Whatever happens, we have to make sure it doesn't encourage anyone to fly while sick though.