Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-09-2015 | 02:45 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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From: Baja Vermont
PS isn't compensation.
GF
02-09-2015 | 02:47 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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I'm not sure what point you are making, but you are correct.
The legal and contractual structure of their plan is somewhat different than ours but its still basically the same thing. It's "at risk" compensation that varies with the company's profits.
The pilots participate in the corporate plan on the same basis as all other employees. Its a deeply ingrained part of their vaunted "culture" over there but yes, the corporation could theoretically end the plan if they wish.
If they do that however, the pilots have contractual protection. It would trigger an immediate reopening of the pilot contract to negotiate a "replacement" plan.
Their plan is also significantly more detailed and complex than ours.
Depending on individual tax circumstances, in some respects its a lot better.
Its geared more toward retirement savings rather than annual cash compensation.
Here's the Southwest plan:
Warning --> it will put you to sleep.
Southwest Airlines Co. ProfitSharing Plan
The legal and contractual structure of their plan is somewhat different than ours but its still basically the same thing. It's "at risk" compensation that varies with the company's profits.
The pilots participate in the corporate plan on the same basis as all other employees. Its a deeply ingrained part of their vaunted "culture" over there but yes, the corporation could theoretically end the plan if they wish.
If they do that however, the pilots have contractual protection. It would trigger an immediate reopening of the pilot contract to negotiate a "replacement" plan.
Their plan is also significantly more detailed and complex than ours.
Depending on individual tax circumstances, in some respects its a lot better.
Its geared more toward retirement savings rather than annual cash compensation.
Here's the Southwest plan:
Warning --> it will put you to sleep.
Southwest Airlines Co. ProfitSharing Plan
02-09-2015 | 02:51 PM
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From: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
02-09-2015 | 02:53 PM
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Since the ALPA PAC guys are out in full force spreading disinformation and hurling personal attacks, I'll just reply to all of them so as not to clog the thread:
ALPA PAC is there to support the election of very far left liberal democrats. ALPA is affiliated with the AFL-CIO which is also a very far left political organization. ALPA PAC's challenge has been how to get money from airline pilots (who are predominantly conservative politically) to reshape the legislative branch into a left wing political construct. ALPA PAC has chosen the method of calling their left wing partisan agenda "Pilot Partisan." Now they've taken it a step further with the claim that they're winning the Export/Import Bank and NAI agenda with their "Pilot Partisan" efforts. The truth is that any progress made has only been because labor's interests just happen to align with the interests of airline management. If not for that, this would already be lost like age 60 and the rest.
I fully support anyone in their desire to send money to back their political ideology. Just know that ALPA PAC dollars primarily support the electing of far left liberal democrats. Check for yourself on their list of non-incumbents they send money to. It is overwhelmingly in favor of far left politicians. If that's your desire, then ALPA PAC is for you.
Carl
ALPA PAC is there to support the election of very far left liberal democrats. ALPA is affiliated with the AFL-CIO which is also a very far left political organization. ALPA PAC's challenge has been how to get money from airline pilots (who are predominantly conservative politically) to reshape the legislative branch into a left wing political construct. ALPA PAC has chosen the method of calling their left wing partisan agenda "Pilot Partisan." Now they've taken it a step further with the claim that they're winning the Export/Import Bank and NAI agenda with their "Pilot Partisan" efforts. The truth is that any progress made has only been because labor's interests just happen to align with the interests of airline management. If not for that, this would already be lost like age 60 and the rest.
I fully support anyone in their desire to send money to back their political ideology. Just know that ALPA PAC dollars primarily support the electing of far left liberal democrats. Check for yourself on their list of non-incumbents they send money to. It is overwhelmingly in favor of far left politicians. If that's your desire, then ALPA PAC is for you.
Carl
02-09-2015 | 02:55 PM
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From: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
You must remember, PS at SWA was their "retirement plan" when all the other majors were offering defined benefit pensions throughout the 80's, 90's, and until the majors all shed their pilot pensions in BK proceedings.
They had no retirement medical or defined pension plan, what they had was PS that went into a retirement vehicle if they chose plus some 401K matching.
They had no retirement medical or defined pension plan, what they had was PS that went into a retirement vehicle if they chose plus some 401K matching.
02-09-2015 | 03:00 PM
Works Every Weekend
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From: 737 ATL
Disclaimer -> I'm absolutely no expert. I just skimmed that massive document.
Maybe shoelu or full of luv can explain better.
BUT, it looks to me like some of their profit sharing can actually be "deferred" and placed in a trust so that more of it can come as "qualified" retirement money. ie= taxed like section 415 money rather than ordinary income.
Doing that comes with IRS strings attached of course. But it would be a nice option.
Maybe shoelu or full of luv can explain better.
BUT, it looks to me like some of their profit sharing can actually be "deferred" and placed in a trust so that more of it can come as "qualified" retirement money. ie= taxed like section 415 money rather than ordinary income.
Doing that comes with IRS strings attached of course. But it would be a nice option.
02-09-2015 | 03:01 PM
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From: Permanently scarred
And you say PS isn't compensation. So you think we should just give up PS.
OK
Digesting......
Digesting...........
Uhhhhhhh, so if I'm following you, and maybe your mind is just on another level, like a Stephen Hawking level and I'm just a dumb pilot....but, ...... uhhhhh.....Ok...wait...let me....
Maybe I drank too much NyQuil, because I'm not quite following you.....
You think we should give up Profit Sharing, but for some evil genius reason that I'm incapable of figuring out, and you don't think there should be any increase in pay for it....(I think I'm catching on...light bulb is starting to flicker!)...Because, because...yeah, I got it...because PROFIT SHARING DOLLARS AREN'T COMPENSATION! Look at me! I'm in on the scheme....Yeah, Profit Sharing isn't compensation! No, no, we don't do something stupid like think we should give it up for something silly like pay rates...that would be foolhardy. We just get rid of it and refuse to put a number against what we think we should get in return. Holy S#!t you're a genius! Please tell me you're on the Negotiating Committee.
(Edit: Just woke up from my blissful numb minding, acid like euphoric, NyQuil induced state of clarity; you want to give it up for $5000 like you said a while back in your original manifesto about PS. The world is even clearer now....now I know what self-actualization is all about.)
02-09-2015 | 03:16 PM
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No, it is patently unfair to construct a question asking what PS is worth in Pay only. That isn't spit balling. Spit balling would require an acknowledgement the entire PWA is up for improvement and suggestions for where best to use a newfound asset to leverage contractual gains. The premise of his question forces me to acknowledge that PS can only be leveraged to improve pay.
Seeing as exchanging PS for compensation "only" would be foolhardy, then if we were to concede all PS back to the company in 2015 what type contractual gains/improvements would you like to see in broad specifics?
Basically what is PS worth to us in you opinion?
Furthermore, your not testifying in front of Congress, so relax we are all just trying to have an adult discussion here.
02-09-2015 | 03:27 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
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From: Light Chop
02-09-2015 | 03:37 PM
Back on TDY
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From: 747-400 Captain
Does this ever work for you LeineLodge? When you start off a response this way, do people say: "Oh, I sure don't want LeineLodge to have this opinion of me so I better ignore clear evidence so LeineLodge will like me again."
I like the idea of another ALPA PAC. We've already got this one that lives for electing far left liberals, so I propose the ALPA SAC (for members that still have a pair
). The ALPA SAC would support conservative politicians who believe in larger liberty and smaller government. Then we could both make our "pilot partisan" cases to our respective legislators. Competition!
See above.
Carl
Carl, how do you suggest we combat the many threats facing our profession? Do we only choose to engage those politicians that match our own individual ideologies (impossible btw with such a large pilot group)? Or would a better strategy be to attempt to engage wherever an opportunity presents itself to further our careers?
). The ALPA SAC would support conservative politicians who believe in larger liberty and smaller government. Then we could both make our "pilot partisan" cases to our respective legislators. Competition!Carl
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