I don't need a paid apd. I need more apds in a year! Remember the junior folks who can't control their schedule!

There is plenty of movement. If this keeps up the only reason a pilot will be junior for more than a year will be because he or she chooses to be junior. This is a far cry from many on the list who were junior (system wide) for many years at three separate times.

Junior when first hired.
Junior again just prior to furlough.
Junior again when recalled (often years later).

This very thing happened to over 2000 Pilots in the early 90s and early 2000. We had guys who were junior system wide for over 5 years so I don't really understand what you are referencing.

If a new hire wants to be an ER FO - he will be junior...............by choice. Anyone can control their schedule very quickly by bidding 717 or 88 or even to some degree 737 and baby bus FO.

Scoop

If what people are saying is true, the rotations are going to be pulled so FO's can't even bid them, then you may want to educate the jr FO's on how this is going to mess with their QOL. Stuff rolls down hill. So the senior FO that used to bid MUC but can't now because of TOE's now bids his next most desirable and so on and so on. Those jr FO's now are scratching their heads asking themselves why they are flying really crummy trips when they held much better before the new system.

Which is exactly why we should not be arguing with each other over which "good deals" are worth protecting and which are not.

It's one thing for the company to want to tamp some of these out. It's a whole 'nother thing to see your neighbor getting a good deal and say "that's not cool. We should redistribute it to everyone."

With very few exceptions, I am not interested in giving up any of the good parts of our contract in order to level it out, or whatever some of you guys are talking about.

How about we keep what we have and work on making the rest better? It boggles my mind that anyone would want to make an argument to get rid of some of these items. Let management do that :rolleyes:

I guess I don't see alpa putting it in our sights. We are talking about what the company supposedly wants. Just like us they mostly get section 6 or bk court to address items they want changed in the contract. We've been discussing how to value that. It is negotiation at the end of the day. Just as an aside what do the other majors do?

Agreeing to give up recovery would bring out the pitchforks and torches on a far worse level than the CDO debacle.

Agreed... Do the people who chatter about this realize that ALPA fought to have that provision restored just recently (July 2011)!

Scheduling Alert 11-05 explained the improvements ALPA negotiated in LOA #29. Section 23.G.5 - First Officer Removal for OE is the very first item shown. It was a piece of contract restoration that pilots had been asking for, and it was accomplished. DALPA already used leverage in the last 5 years to get it back, I would be really surprised to see it negotiated away (and would vote accordingly).

The high paid FO's aren't a a surprise to anyone in management. Just because some FO's are making a killing on it doesn't mean anything... The highest paid pilot at DAL (and any other airline) has almost always been a WB FO.

You're probably right. I think CDO's had the potential of upsetting the trip mix, but since they came with more credit, they would have enjoyed their own following, and not hurt staffing. My guess is that they would not have been junior, but they might have a had a surprisingly high proportion of sick calls. Hence, Reserves would get punished.

Pretty small rock in our puddle, compared to yanking OE trips before FO awards or forcing the FO being removed to fly a lower trip, as first in the coverage sequence.

Why do I get/have the feeling we are closer to a deal than not.....

Denny

It's interesting that most of the rumors regarding work rules put the pilots in the defensive position. Where is our offense? Where is our list of improvements to work rules? I realize the union has decided to not publish survey results (I think this is a mistake and removes solidarity but a topic for another day) but why can't we take better control of the narrative in the public arena?! Why don't we leak some of our must haves and discuss those.

It just seems when it's time to raise the bar on our already gutted contract Ford and Harrison on behalf of Delta Air Lines gets us chasing our tales when we should be moving our agenda forward and building an army of soldiers determined to move the offensive forward.

Btw, I don't blame guys for mentioning rumors. I do believe they are being leaked by the powers that be. Our union needs to implement a strategy to rally the troops behind core work rule improvements and get that information out there. Hiding the data from those they need support from does not help.