BobZ

they don't have an alternative airframe. and they have -800 etop airframes which have better endurance...but 20 less seats.

of the winds that impact the -900...the chronic TW takeoff in lax is probably the most damaging to its performance.

not to worry....word is the 73-10/A-321 will hack it just fine.

Hawaii50

I agree the 75 is a better airplane for the job but I've flown out to Kona and HNL many times in the 73-900, full pax and never had an issue. Alaska and UAL do have the 73-800 ETOPs which would make it into all the islands without a problem.

Xray678

73-10 can hack it? Same wing, engine and fuel capacity, but heavier airframe. Yeah that will work.

BobZ

it was mostly a TIC observation.

absent some fountain of 'ute' for the 757 there aren't going to be any other options. Except maybe the C-series, or other (newer) WB airframes??

I'm guessing if/when it rolls off the line, the 73-10 will come with a bumped GW, an upgraded engine rating, and maybe even more fuel.

IF the -900 can get airborne off of lax, it usually is satisfactory in making hnl and koa. But that is a big 'IF'. The RATOW TW/KT penalty on the -900 is huge. I think about 1500-1700lb/kt if memory serves.

Understanding most -900 flights LAX to HNL/KOA depart at or near MGTOW, the standard 6-8kt TW lax tolerates in staying in a west operation pretty much hammers the -900s ability to get airborne with a full load.

I'm guessing for UA/AK SEA and SFO are not so limiting in their runway ops.

Anecdotally....have known of flights that sat out on the taxiway for hour(s) waiting for the wind to shift...or at least go calm....to be under the RATOW limit.

And if a crew is filed and requests an opposite direction departure for winds....lax atc will not even start coordinating until you call for taxi...and their standard advisory is 'expect at least 2 hours to coordinate'.

The other hammer is when the -900 is planned at FL260 the whole way to the islands because of ride.....and not so much wind. Its a FL limited airframe on a good day on the top end. But if it cant get into the 30's there is going to be a problem with endurance. This was the situation when the agent came onboard and told me 'we are pulling 40 pax'.

As with the 765...the final growth variants of most airframes result in calculated compromises.

The 737-900 is no different.

Dirtdiver

Pure speculation on my part, but maybe that's the source of our notoriously high number of HKs. Anyone who nonrevs to or from the islands knows it can look good when you leave for the airport, and be zeroed out by HKs by the time you get to the gate.

badflaps

They will rue the day that they ever got involved with the -900. Wait till they get a little beat up. Think 727 with -7 engines. Sooey!

BobZ

IDK about the neo....but its likely the present 320 family shares similar compromises. Both the 900 and 320 are matured variants, grown near to the practical limits of the base design. With the exception of the AB capacity to accept newer engine technology.

But more efficient engines are only a part solution, the other part being necessary increase in thrust class to support the airframe growth variant.

If the CFM had the growth capacity to achieve a 40+K thrust class it may solve the problem. IDK.....maybe a 'reheat' system for TO would do the trick..

TED74

HKs are often misunderstood (the symbol, not the people). From non-rev travel FAQs:

2. I often see a large number of "HK" and revenue standby passengers appear on the airport standby list before a flight, which, in many cases, showed plenty of available seats the day or even hours before. Who are these passengers and where do they come from?
HK passengers are customers who have confirmed reservations but were not assigned a seat when they purchased their ticket or checked in – they are placed on the waitlist and assigned seats at the gate. HK passengers do hold a confirmed reservation on the flight, and the seats they will occupy are already accounted for in the available (AV) seat total in TravelNet.
There are several reasons why you may see HK passengers listed on your flight. For example:
• They may have purchased a Basic Economy fare which does not allow advance seat selection
• They elected not to purchase a Comfort + or other premium seat, which may have been the only seating options available at the time they purchased their ticket.
Revenue standby passengers are passengers who are confirmed on a specific flight but are choosing to standby for a different flight. They are represented on the airport standby list by standby codes like B1, SDSB and SDSC. Unlike HK's, the seats these standby passengers will occupy are not accounted for in the available (AV) seat total in TravelNet.
There are many reasons why revenue standby passengers may appear on the airport standby list close to the flight's departure time. For example, they may have been rerouted on to the flight by Delta's automatic rebooking tool, VIPER, if their earlier flight was delayed or cancelled. Or they may have also taken advantage of the flexibility and convenience of Delta's Same Day Travel/Same Day Confirmed program, which allows them to change their flights or standby for another flight without paying a fee.
3. Oftentimes a single flight will show many seats available on one day, but few to no seats available on the next. What causes our passenger bookings to change so often? Does Delta offload seats at online booking sites?
Delta does not offload inventory to online discount booking sites. The following are some common reasons why passenger seat bookings may change on a given flight:
• When an irregular operation occurs due to weather or other circumstances, revenue customers are rebooked on whatever flights are available to get them to their final destination.
• The aircraft type scheduled to operate the flight may be switched for a number of operational reasons, and the new aircraft type may have less (or more) passenger capacity than the original one.
• The flight may have been given passenger weight restrictions for a number of aircraft performance reasons, or may have been payload optimized to ensure that important revenue cargo can be accommodated.
• Revenue customers may have changed their travel plans to take another flight.

sailingfun

I find the biggest source of confusion in non revenue travel is people ignoring the actual bookings and going to the seat availability page. If a flight with 160 seats is booked at 160 but shows 30 seats unassigned it's not a good bet. In the hours before the flight there will be 30HK's show up on the airport standby list and the flight will be full. The difference between booked seats and assigned seats becomes the dreaded HK's. There are a lot more booked seats without seat assignments in the last few years because the new cheap economy tickets do not allow advance seat selection. They are always HK's the day of the flight.

qball

HKs = Hope Killers