Buck Rogers

As Richard Dawson used to say on Family Feud, "Good answer, good answer".

In this scenario the answer is fairly apparent to MOST pilots and pretty black and white. It becomes a little murkier as you cross the spectrum of JS, own airline, DH, DDH, listed for JS, or non rev, etc

StartngOvr

Are stand-up overnights PWA compliant? I thought I saw some discussion a while back that they are not.

See NYC320A 0979\30JUL. GS award, not a bid package trip.


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Scoop

Who cares - our DH, and positive space seat assignment policy blows. Our DH deviation policy front and back end rocks but the seat assignment part is lame.

I know we can't expect to lead the industry in every aspect of our PWA which overall is very good but we have too many areas that are industry lagging.

We should absolutely make solid gains in the weaker areas of our PWA.

Scoop

Planetrain

It’s legal. It pays 10:30.

Years ago the company wanted standups that paid less than 10:30 via a LOA. (Thank goodness that got squashed.)

Broncos

Not legal as a PBS-awarded trip, but legal as a PCS awarded trip.

StartngOvr

Ah yes. Now I remember. If they are willing to pay the 10:30 it’s legal. Thanks.


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hockeypilot44

Why isn't it legal as a PBS award? I thought it was. They just don't because there's too much credit.

gloopy

Right, and a novel and functionally irrelevant way to look at the issue is that we preserved the 10:30 instead of the lower amount. That's not really relevant though, as we don't have any and likely won't at 10:30 because it would make them completely non stackable which is what a lot of pilots actually liked and it made for a great QOL.

Standup lines of time are much safer than many things common in our current trip mix. However that would require hard lines for those (which could be bid on with seniority obviously) but if we "preserved" the nonexistant 10:30 ones, we'll never see them. Great, that's super safe right? No, because they'll just keep building circadian disrupting trips where you flip back and forth with crappy 30 hour overnights where you have to sleep twice after getting in late yet having to go to bed at 7PM the next evening to get the 8 hours you won't hardly ever get for the 4AM van.

I don't think the company was ever chomping at the bit to do standups for us; most of the push to see if we could find a solution was from the pilot group because they are very desireable for some pilots. I'd like to see Standup hard lines of time offered (with certain restrictive parameters of course) and then work rules to protect reserves like when you get done with one, you're free and clear until at least 10AM the next day.

That would offer the pilot group hyper commutable, yet much safer circadian consistent schedules, with a very low block to credit ratio while protecting reserves who got assigned one. It would make the rest of the rotations safer as well by reducing the circadian flips too. You could even put in a provision that said no one can be assigned a Standup line of time unless they bid it. Any unbid ones would go into the pot with reserve protections as mentioned.

Its funny hearing so many unconditional howls of protest to something many pilots liked, supposedly on the basis of safety, that would be far less disruptive on sleep cycles. Would some pilots try and play hero and run businesses and paint the house during or sandwich it between their 2-3+ hour driving "commute" each way during their day rest period? Possibly, but those types do it anyway.

So instead we stand strong pretending its a pay issue and enjoy the increased circadian flip rotations for everyone.

Planetrain

I can see your preference for standups. Your argument is very good, but I would strongly suspect that you are in the minority.

If the Union was to construct “airtight” language for standups, my prediction is 5% of pilots would be thrilled, the other 95% would be the junior pilots getting hosed. No thanks.

StartngOvr

Put me in the 5%. I’m with Gloopy.

An added benefit is it avoids rush hour driving to the airport on both ends.


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