Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-14-2020, 05:16 AM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,260
Originally Posted by FL370esq
I've said it before but never underestimate the ability of the NMB mediator to find a circumstance over which the company does not have control. Pre 9/11 in C2K, the term terrorist act was not in the force majeure definition yet 1,300+ were furloughed over the course of nearly a year and a half past the event. Just because "pandemic" isn't in there doesn't mean the "neutral" won't deem COVID a circumstance over which the company does not have control.
08-14-2020, 06:38 AM
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Posts: 1,060
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Our current contract does list items covered by FM but includes the term “Includes but not limited to” as a preface. We will lose if we try and argue covid is not a FM event. I doubt the union would even argue it unless they just want to blow money.
They're going to use FM. No doubt. JL didn't just let that one slip. They are going to stomp all over our contract and use it for catbox liner. China flu is their wet dream. The only hope we have is a non-biased mediator.
08-14-2020, 07:43 AM
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Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,716
Originally Posted by Phins2right
So what you';re saying is that you agree with me that the company can pretty much do whatever they want WRT the contract. The end result is we end up in court. How that plays out depends. Same as it ever was. However, until such time that the case is ruled upon, the effect is still ongoing unless a prelim stay is invoked. Fun times coming for sure.
They're going to use FM. No doubt. JL didn't just let that one slip. They are going to stomp all over our contract and use it for catbox liner. China flu is their wet dream. The only hope we have is a non-biased mediator.
They're going to use FM. No doubt. JL didn't just let that one slip. They are going to stomp all over our contract and use it for catbox liner. China flu is their wet dream. The only hope we have is a non-biased mediator.
08-14-2020, 07:47 AM
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Joined APC: Jul 2020
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by OOfff
If our contract is that meaningless, why haven’t they lowered ALVs already?
My guess is because we are taking tax payer money. I still have a hard time believing FM would be an option after being floated for 6 months by our government.
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08-14-2020, 08:00 AM
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Position: Gummed
Posts: 1,060
Originally Posted by OOfff
If our contract is that meaningless, why haven’t they lowered ALVs already?
Who's to say they are not planning on doing that regardless? You act as if they won't. Yes, they haven't done it yet.
08-14-2020, 09:05 AM
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Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 890
Originally Posted by FL370esq
I've said it before but never underestimate the ability of the NMB mediator to find a circumstance over which the company does not have control. Pre 9/11 in C2K, the term terrorist act was not in the force majeure definition yet 1,300+ were furloughed over the course of nearly a year and a half past the event. Just because "pandemic" isn't in there doesn't mean the "neutral" won't deem COVID a circumstance over which the company does not have control.
Minor point, but it won’t be an NMB mediator who makes that call. It would be a neutral selected by ALPA and the company under 19.G.2.
I agree with your larger point, when there is a grey area neutrals usually side with the company. They also tend to respond to necessity of business arguments very favorably.
08-14-2020, 10:30 AM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,260
Originally Posted by Phins2right
So what you';re saying is that you agree with me that the company can pretty much do whatever they want WRT the contract. The end result is we end up in court. How that plays out depends. Same as it ever was. However, until such time that the case is ruled upon, the effect is still ongoing unless a prelim stay is invoked. Fun times coming for sure.
They're going to use FM. No doubt. JL didn't just let that one slip. They are going to stomp all over our contract and use it for catbox liner. China flu is their wet dream. The only hope we have is a non-biased mediator.
They're going to use FM. No doubt. JL didn't just let that one slip. They are going to stomp all over our contract and use it for catbox liner. China flu is their wet dream. The only hope we have is a non-biased mediator.
Last edited by sailingfun; 08-14-2020 at 10:48 AM.
08-14-2020, 10:36 AM
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Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,544
Originally Posted by Phins2right
So what you';re saying is that you agree with me that the company can pretty much do whatever they want WRT the contract. The end result is we end up in court. How that plays out depends. Same as it ever was. However, until such time that the case is ruled upon, the effect is still ongoing unless a prelim stay is invoked. Fun times coming for sure.
They're going to use FM. No doubt. JL didn't just let that one slip. They are going to stomp all over our contract and use it for catbox liner. China flu is their wet dream. The only hope we have is a non-biased mediator.
They're going to use FM. No doubt. JL didn't just let that one slip. They are going to stomp all over our contract and use it for catbox liner. China flu is their wet dream. The only hope we have is a non-biased mediator.
08-14-2020, 10:59 AM
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Posts: 1,060
Originally Posted by Iceberg
You think management enjoyed the dream where revenue was decimated and billions in profits were turned into billions in losses but, omg, they were able to get concessions from the pilots? My guess is the “wet” part was tears.
they are not tied to the airline like we are. They can move on very easily and most likely will find a soft landing if the worse happens to the airline.
I don't shed a tear for them. Not one.
We'll see soon enough how they plan to gut the PWA forthwith. Lucky I VEOP on 1 Sept. You'll have to deal with the fallout and the absolute decimation of your QOL.
08-14-2020, 11:27 AM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,260
Originally Posted by Phins2right
There was much they could do along the way yet they rode the train.
they are not tied to the airline like we are. They can move on very easily and most likely will find a soft landing if the worse happens to the airline.
I don't shed a tear for them. Not one.
We'll see soon enough how they plan to gut the PWA forthwith. Lucky I VEOP on 1 Sept. You'll have to deal with the fallout and the absolute decimation of your QOL.
they are not tied to the airline like we are. They can move on very easily and most likely will find a soft landing if the worse happens to the airline.
I don't shed a tear for them. Not one.
We'll see soon enough how they plan to gut the PWA forthwith. Lucky I VEOP on 1 Sept. You'll have to deal with the fallout and the absolute decimation of your QOL.
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