Is that contractually subject to FM?

 

It did seem that way. However the totality of the question seemed to be a plant with the scope part. I hadn't heard anyone ask that previously, while lots were asking about the furlough pay part (at DL and other airlines). And he didn't refute the scope part (which no one had been asking).

 

The next move is figuring out how to shaft pilots who take the VEOP.

 

I’ll post this here again. It’s an excerpt from the PWA that outlines what force majeur does NOT apply to.

Furlough pay

 

The FM comments were from a ‘preciously submitted question’. I would be shocked (and disappointed) if they had not worked for hours on crafting the answers to those (and this) question.

 

I believe it was a question during the live comments. But regardless, they want to use it. And he said he believes that the pandemic qualifies as a situation that they can use it. Unbelievable.

 

I did find and listen to it and that’s not close to what he said. I also am willing to bet everyone gets furlough pay. I doubt he was even referencing that. It’s fractions of a penny compared to the scope side. I do expect they will invoke it on scope since they are in violation of numerous parts of our contract if they don’t reach a agreement with the union. I suspect however some agreement will be reached with the union because they will recognize that they will lose a FM arbitration with most of the worlds air travel shut down. It’s hard to fly anything approaching our minimum block hour requirements when there is no where to fly and it will be years before demand matches some of our contractual requirements. The challenge will be crafting a agreement as flying picks up that insures our fair share of the flying while accounting for international agreements, JV agreements and government mandated route allotments.
Do you really believe that this is not a FM situation with regard to international scope and if not can you tell us what you think might qualify?

 

absolutely not. This is not a situation where FM applies. No one forced Delta into these failed JVs that have cost billions. They CHOSE to go down that route. It paid off quite a bit in the good times, but in the bad, you see the financial flaws that outsourcing your international flying has.

furthermore, taking BILLIONS VOLUNTARILY from the government to meet payroll nixes FM. Delta has had nearly 6 months to get its financial house in order and has done a pretty good job of it, but we know they’ve made mistakes on the pilot front with not offering SILs, blank lines, etc.

this is yet another failure of leadership from JL. Anyone who isn’t disgusted by this man is someone I don’t want anything to do with.

 

So give me a hint where Delta could fly international flights and meet as a example our minimum block hour requirements in the Pacific and actually generate revenue? Please also tell me with 90% of the worlds international travel shut down what you would consider a FM event? Maybe nuclear war that kills 90% of the worlds population?
I can tell you the union fully understands they will lose if they push the issue in arbitration. That’s why they have not even said boo about it. There will be a time as flying returns to start the discussion. The last thing the union wants now would be to push the issue and lose in arbitration. Much smarter to wait until there is actually flying to fight over. Life is hard, it’s harder when your stupid, you don’t want a stupid union.
I do not believe as far as furlough pay this is a FM situation. We would win that one at the system board and not even get to arbitration.

 

The short answer is we can't fly much of anywhere internationally - the optimal solution would be for ALPA to recognize that there just isn't any flying, suspend the JV balance until some travel metric is met in exchange for some improved balance in the future. I think if the union just gave them nothing there would be some howls of protests, and remember a LOA would likely need MEMRAT. That might not pass if it's just a give.