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FWIW, until maddog brought up the issue of LOA 20 and that we shouldn't lose a day off for training, I hadn't looked through LOA 20 at all. I knew it was about MAC flights and so I moved on. There is some interesting stuff in there though.
As to the increased flying on the Airbus 320 side, I'd imagine that unlike the 9 that is undergoing changes in fleet size the 320 is the first plane we'll see the affects of NWA staffing formula vs the new PWA staffing. Would that be far off? I mean did they even drawn down MSP 320 on the AE as the planes headed to SLC? I can't remember if they did or not. Anotherwords, will Super and J29 be alive come Labor Day? |
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 774923)
FtB;
That is why, if you have a slip in, the bag is in the car, and the phone is on the hip! |
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 774921)
FtB;
We will see what we ask for in 2012. I have a few different philosophies I am paying around with. Suffice to say, no here. I would like to see an added 30% in the next two years, but I would suspect that section six would just open earlier. (Benefit to all parties as we get an agreement prior to the UAUA/CAL JPWA and have to live with it) I agree that how we "feel" is no where near the top of anyone's concern. This is a business, and we provide a service for a price. Their job is to get us to agree to preform said service for as little per unit as possible. Ours, of course it the opposite. That said, relative labor peace is very important. LUV and DAL has proven that when you can get your interests and that of labors to align great things are possible. The success and speed of this merger and integration is proof positive that there is a price for that. Keenster; It is seniority based. Top down is how the call outs go. Trust me, when it gets bad the IA, which means there are not enough people with GS's in to cover the flying. That is already happening to some degree. I get the sense that this summer will be "interesting." |
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 774926)
Not quite true 80. There are guys that get multiple GS's. It has to do with who is "legal"
Yeah I should have clarified that... figured I'd already added enough caveats to it already. You complete me. |
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
(Post 774922)
From talking to the merger committee folks the end money given to the pilot group between the time and a half pay NWA used to get and the greenslip system was a wash proportionally. However, the greenslip system was spread out whereas the 1.5X system was heavily in favor of senior pilots.
How so? The 1.5X system was available to everyone through the open time system, and even changes far down the month would put you in line for premium pay. You could pick up trips at any time of the month, not just the day ahead, and not just the trips that CS needed covering. ANY credit, at any time, over 80, was paid at the premium rate. Heck, a lot of time your awarded line gave you premium pay out of the box. What's overlooked quite a bit is that in addition to the over-80 premium, there were "premium" trips at NWA (very similar to GS flying) that someone under 80 could benefit from (get paid 1.5x), and if you were over 80, the multipliers stacked (1.5x1.5). To say that GS flying is available to everyone is silly...it's really only available to those who live in base. So really, even if the over-80 flying favored the senior (which is basically false), the "premium flying" has just been shifted to a different group, rather than distributed evenly. I favor going back to the system that NWA had, which was an overriding premium for over-80 (which benefits everyone), in addition to trip specific premium (to encourage coverage) that can benefit those under 80 as well as those who are in a position to take advantage. Of course, I'd also require the company to use their proper "caller ID" when calling your home, but I'm kinda fussy that way. Nu |
Originally Posted by NuGuy
(Post 774934)
Of course, I'd also require the company to use their proper "caller ID" when calling your home, but I'm kinda fussy that way.
Nu You? Fussy? Say it ain't so! :D |
Originally Posted by NuGuy
(Post 774934)
Heyas FtB,
How so? The 1.5X system was available to everyone through the open time system, and even changes far down the month would put you in line for premium pay. You could pick up trips at any time of the month, not just the day ahead, and not just the trips that CS needed covering. ANY credit, at any time, over 80, was paid at the premium rate. Heck, a lot of time your awarded line gave you premium pay out of the box. What's overlooked quite a bit is that in addition to the over-80 premium, there were "premium" trips at NWA (very similar to GS flying) that someone under 80 could benefit from (get paid 1.5x), and if you were over 80, the multipliers stacked (1.5x1.5). To say that GS flying is available to everyone is silly...it's really only available to those who live in base. So really, even if the over-80 flying favored the senior (which is basically false), the "premium flying" has just been shifted to a different group, rather than distributed evenly. I favor going back to the system that NWA had, which was an overriding premium for over-80 (which benefits everyone), in addition to trip specific premium (to encourage coverage) that can benefit those under 80 as well as those who are in a position to take advantage. Of course, I'd also require the company to use their proper "caller ID" when calling your home, but I'm kinda fussy that way. Nu |
Originally Posted by keenster
(Post 774941)
I have heard that the hightset paid guy bids a 737 sch out of ATL, drops his whole sch, and then fills up with green slips every month. That does not seem quite right to me and maybe this is incorrect information. Can anyone shed some light on this???
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Originally Posted by keenster
(Post 774941)
With my limited knowledge of GS flying, I am with you Nu. I think that the over 80 was much more equitable for the entire group. My take is that senior in base guys get the majority of GS flying. I have heard that the hightset paid guy bids a 737 sch out of ATL, drops his whole sch, and then fills up with green slips every month. That does not seem quite right to me and maybe this is incorrect information. Can anyone shed some light on this???
THat can work when we're short. We're not. Greenslips haven't been handed out like candy for a little while now...come this summer, that will change. The highest paid regular line guy in the history of Delta, from what I'm told, was an MD-11 FO out of PDX. He would bid to fly with LCAs, get bought off trips..and then greenslip... thus getting triple pay. Heard he brought in a good half million one year. Any truth to this, oh senior ones? |
Originally Posted by keenster
(Post 774941)
With my limited knowledge of GS flying, I am with you Nu. I think that the over 80 was much more equitable for the entire group. My take is that senior in base guys get the majority of GS flying. I have heard that the hightset paid guy bids a 737 sch out of ATL, drops his whole sch, and then fills up with green slips every month. That does not seem quite right to me and maybe this is incorrect information. Can anyone shed some light on this???
Another mechanism that helps spread the wealth is the IA, since it starts from the bottom, and a third is the Reserve GS. If staffing is tight enough, Reserve GS can actually be the best thing going. I've never been senior in any category, but I've not missed on my share of premium flying during the summer, if it's busy enough. I rarely bother with GS as a lineholder, so in my case, it's been a combination IA and Reserve GS back when I was on Reserve. I think this is a topic on which you can get more specific answers on the DALPA forum. While I don't like what that venue has become, there has always been a very good Scheduling section. Maybe you can get someone with some knowledge (maybe people from the North as well) to address the 80+ vs. GS. When it comes time to draft our proposal for 2012, I don't see why we can't craft a "best of both worlds" position. |
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