I think this year will be a good year, but not great. I think next year will be a great year. This goes back to the concept of "going short" and trying to lead the 2012-2013 negotiations and getting gains earlier rather than later versus "going long" and waiting for the full section 6 and having the leverage of a strike to back up your negotiations.

Given the history of the airlines, my opinion is get it while you can because you don't know what the future may hold. I would rather get gains earlier, even if smaller than what might be expected in Section 6, and use profit sharing or performance raises as our schmuck insurance if we aim too low.

Since this year may only be good, we should first concentrate on work rules. Pay rates are the most visible part of our contract and it is easier to sneak in gains in work rules rather than the pay rates. This would make the Scheduling Optimization Team more important. The MEC should set a strategic direction for the end state work rules and use the SOT to help manage the process into that box, while getting buy in from the company at the same time. We should try to get as close as possible to the end state of work rules and clean up the rest in round 2.

Round 2 would probably come next year sometime, when the company numbers should be quite impressive. That is when you set in pay rate increases. You would have to trade an extended amendable date in order to move forward in any significant fashion. You could sweeten up the profit sharing or alternatively get a performance based pay metric to boost pay rates if the company does extremely well. To get that, you may have to go for a longer amendable date and maybe have the risk of losing on the downside also. All questions the MEC would have to face if they wanted to go this direction.

For the MEC, the easiest thing to do would be to whine and moan until 2012/2013 and then move into the standard section 6 process. It would take a bold step for them to move in a non-standard direction, but they may be able to get more gains earlier by sticking their necks out a little.

Hold on to your seats, boys, this should be fun to watch.

For the same reason you don't fly DTW-CDG.

Some flying, no matter how logical, gets "Joint-Venture"ed out of Delta pilots' hands.

AR,

Thanks for the detailed reply to possible "Negotiating Tactics 101". Very informative and I think you answered what was to be my "second question" when reading your reply. (Highlighted for ease of reference.) Just one more bit of clarification, or possibly just putting it out there as "food for thought".

Wherein then lies our point of "diminishing returns" for contract negotiations? (ie schedule improvements/pay increase) Gain too early and we missed out on the "larger" numbers? Gain too late and we miss out on the "previous quarters STELLAR numbers"?

I'm of the thought that if this "Con-United" :cool: marriage happens, and if they (the unions) can get both of their irons in the same fire when PWA language comes to management, that we can do 10% better then when our negotiations come forth for review again? (Was that confusing? Might have been as I think I confused myself?:rolleyes:)

Example - Con-United comes out with a contract that mirrors ours with a 10% improvement across the board. (percentage based increases used only for "example" purposes.) We then, after a few "healthy" quarters of operation, as I was eluding to in my first post, approach the bargaining table with again, Con-United's contract PLUS 10% across the board.

Or is that again "waiting too long" and losing out on what could have resulted in a better contract had we negotiated sooner.

Like I mentioned above. Just some more "food for thought" and "puking ideas" onto a web board forum may just lead to someone believing that I drink too much during "daylight" hours. :D

Thanks in advance for any thoughtful replies,

GJ

Alfa seems to have a good bearing on the minds of the current MEC. If the changeover occurs this Oct like many predict, will there be a change in tactic or will they continue this line.

I would like to see some substantial LOA increases this year as as result of the SOT. Identify, clarify and amend our Sections 12 and 23. I would then like what Afla hint at, go to a early section six, or a Jan 1, 2012 (early opener) section six with a significant compensation and restoration package. I say aim high, but not astronomical. (Not going to give a number) Or better yet, work on two distinct plans leading up to that date. One that will go for the long ball, and a second that is more pragmatic.

When the time comes we decide which one we are willing to offer. Remember that once we put a number out there, that number is the top. With the projections for 2012-2014 we need to make sure of a few things, one being that we need to get appreciable gains in compensation and shortly after the amendable date.

I am all for the performance based compensation, but not in lieu of a substantial initial kick.

I know the direction I will give my reps. I want significant gains in pay, work rules and hours of service, with an iron clad section one. Nothing less.

Anyone remember who to contact for the Will Services? The company or the union put out something a while back about a free service for us to use for setting up our Wills?

I believe this is what you're looking for:

Item four. A free will preparation service is offered by Hyatt Legal Plans, a MetLife company, as part of MetLife's insurance services. *This service provides eligible employees, retirees and their spouse/domestic partner with access to an attorney who participates in the plan for preparing or updating a will at no charge. All pilots who are eligible for company-provided basic life insurance are eligible for this MetLife service. For more information, check out the Will Preparation Fact Sheet under the Life and Other Insurances webpage on the Health & Insurances webpage on the Employee Connection portion of the DeltaNet. If you have questions about this service, please contact Hyatt Legal Plans toll-free at 800-821-6400.

*

thats it thanks!!

After we buy Hawaiian the DOT will ask us to divest 3 of our slots to HND for fairness.

Pop corn in hand, I just hope I don't fall out of my seat!



:D Get it, fall out of my seat?! HA! :o

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I think Alfa pretty well nailed Company $$ to negotiating timeframe.

If your question is more investor related, Much of Alfa's post covers that as well. To add, DAL was upgraded to outperform 2-3 weeks ago, one analyst targeted the stock price at $30-40 in approx 1 year with an estimated 1st qtr profit of $2B (from memory, don't quote me). IOW, pretty frikkin good speculative buy+hold. DYODD.

If anything bad happens, all of this happy glad stuff will of course go in the crapper.

I do not know what price of fuel we are hedged at, but since the energy sector is a trailing indicator sector, I would expect the price of oil to continue to go down until the economy bottoms out for real. So, oil will continue to go down for an unknown amount of time certainly a time after which Greece, Portugal and Spain have been kicked off the euro.

My $.02

Rogue, just using your post as a springboard.

What have we learned since deregulation? Pattern bargaining works, both up and down. :eek:

What has been the pattern for Delta contract negotiations? We have almost universally been out of synch with corporate profitability. We signed a great deal in 81, only to have the controller strike and a terrible economy cease hiring until late 1985. In 1985 we got an up contract, but with a B-scale, and the economy roared. We hired like crazy. We didn't participate in the corporate reward. We signed another up contract in '90, only to have Saddam Hussein invade Kuwait the next day. Our pay went up while Delta went downhill. We furloughed 602 and labor relations were awful. We signed a concessionary contract in May '96 only to have the economy roar back at the end of the year. We only shared in the corporate recovery in a minor fashion. But we got 'em with C2K...only to have it broken off in our backsides with LOA 46 and bankruptcy, along with 1310 furloughs.

I don't know about you, but I'm a little tired of the same old same old. How about we innovate a compensation structure that lets us share disproportionately when times are good, but provides a competitive backstop when they're bad? Why don't we find a way to prevent management from paying everybody but us when they're flush with cash, and taking it from us first when they want to avoid the courts?

Ironclad section ones, big raises, full 415C's...they're unsustainable pipe dreams unless the company is making money. There is no free market example of which I'm aware of an employee group keeping industry leading contracts when their employers aren't profitable.

Guys talking about Section 6 like nothing's changed concerns me. If you go back to that battlefield, it's my opinion you may win a few battles, but you'll definitely lose the war. We need to adapt.