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Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
(Post 532349)
I think you're right. They'll finally be dealing with a group with some INTEGRITY!
Good day. PG Again, our old NWA managers are going to really appreciate your integrity. Carl |
Originally Posted by BlaineFaban
(Post 532351)
Perhaps their attitude toward you was a reflection of your continual antagonism toward them and within yourselves.
Originally Posted by BlaineFaban
(Post 532351)
For a couple of years now, we have been no-kidding for real trying to change labor relations at Delta toward a kinder relationship. Overall, we have adopted a trust but verify strategy, and it seems to be working.
This is simply a contract dispute. Somebody will win, and somebody will lose. It's just disappointing to see a few DAL pilots here that seem to hope that we lose. You feel that way because somebody in NWALPA said that DAPLA was not helping. In the world of the Kool-Aid drinkers, this is Mortal Sin!! Carl |
Originally Posted by slowplay
(Post 532533)
Let me start with a simple question, Super. What was your October 2008 paycheck, and what was your December 2008 paycheck? Ask a DAL guy that same question and his answer will be the two numbers are the same...
Tell me again why you think you're "getting bent?" If the NWA position on duty rigs had merit, the Delta negotiating committee would be on board. They're not. What's that tell you? I note that in your rant you don't mention anything about taking away time and a half for over 80 hours (current NWA book). You want that too? I'll remind you that when it came to paying your sick leave, the DAL guys were in agreement and helped you get that fixed. That's the one where you used to get 75% pay for your second sick call. Want that back? Is it ok for NWALPA to pick and choose what parts of the contract to comply with on which they agreed? Is it ok for your reps in 54 and 54 to put out communications that misrepresent where our ONE pilot group is today, communications that are in stark contrast to those from Council 20, your EVP, and Council 1? Maybe you ought to go back and review the record one more time. Examine the facts with 20-20 hindsight and see if various communications reflect the reality of what we've all gone through. I'll point you back to the vitriol spewed after LOA 19 (was it leverage against the NWA pilots or did you get the same thing and more), the testimony of your merger representatives, and the testimony of your MEC chair... I've looked at all that stuff and it's pretty clear to me that Captains Stevens, Stuart and Grimes don't live in the same world that I do. Their world isn't supported by the facts or the record of the last year. Of course, Captain Stevens couldn't even remember how many of his pilots NWA was going to furlough...right....and you want him to remember exactly what he agreed to in negotiations? A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth.... Now I await the educated response of Carl and the capn. It'll make for fun revisionist reading...;) Carl |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 533109)
When it comes to hyperbole, nobody beats you dude.
Carl |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 533112)
To you, INTEGRITY apparently means "you had me at hello".
Again, our old NWA managers are going to really appreciate your integrity. Carl It's a cute comeback, but as is customary with your posts, Carl, doesn't address a single substantive point. I ddn't think I'd have to give you a definition and some examples. But I guess I do. in⋅teg⋅ri⋅ty –noun 1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty. Now - a few examples of those INDIVIDUALS who have a serious LACK of integrity. 1. The pilot who makes outrageous claims on the National Boards, which later, during the SLI arbitration hearing testimony, are shown to be lies. 2. The pilot who makes statements (under oath) during the early parts of the SLI hearings, which are later shown to be highly suspect. 3. The pilot who files frivolous grievances knowing that all parties involved had a "meeting of the minds" during the negotiations. 4. The pilot who distributes a zipline with knowingly false information, only to have to retract that a week later. 5. The pilots who distribute council communiques full of untruths and mischaracterizations. 6. The pilots on THIS board, who defend the above practices. Need I go on? PG |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 533117)
You're speaking out of historical ignorance. Read the latest issue of ALPA magazine regarding the battles we fought against a management team that put destroying labor ahead of running the business. Anyone with ANY knowledge knows that our group fought painful battles to keep the job from being destroyed. Until you vote YES for a strike, then have your wife cry when you come home from picket duty because she's so afraid, you know nothing.
We were developing the same relationship when Anderson was our CEO. When he left, so did the relationship. This is simply a contract dispute. Somebody will win, and somebody will lose. It's just disappointing to see a few DAL pilots here that seem to hope that we lose. You feel that way because somebody in NWALPA said that DAPLA was not helping. In the world of the Kool-Aid drinkers, this is Mortal Sin!! Carl You're right...I guess we are different. We have 400 grievances because we don't open up by saying: "you had me at hello." Our old management (DAL's new management) are going to just LOVE the way you look at labor issues. You seem to like quoting Jerry MCGwire. This is the real world. We file grievances, and usually have them won before they are fought. You like to play the strike card. Good for you. We prefer to walk softly and carry a big stick with regard to contract negotiations. As a bonus, we come out ahead AND get paid. I know that you guys think you know it all, and expect blind support from the new company that you just took over (yeah right), but it doesn't work that way. You are wrong, you have the right to file the grievance, and you will lose. Who said it was anything more than that? Oh yeah, you did. Your committee chairs and MEC members are trying to position themselves for the upcoming elections. You are correct, I do hope you lose. The language in the JCBA is clear, and it doesn't favor your side. All it will do is cost MY company money. Here is a lesson: Filing a legitimate grievance, and filing a grievance just to set tone are two different things. You seem to like revisiting history. Visit this: The Delta pilot group is not interested in continuing your 20 years of inbreed fighting. Oh yeah, one more: The two contracts were a wash with regard to cost. You could not be more wrong, and you know that you are. More hyperbole, and incorrect revisionism. The manning formula alone, which you are grieving in case you forgot, is worth more than double the yearly pension contribution. Take the work rules, pay rates, etc and it gets really bad. You gave a lot to protect your senior, and screwed your junior. Go back to Jerry, now, and try some different quotes. |
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Originally Posted by buzzpat
(Post 532031)
There are lots of DAL captains that were "leapfrogged."
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Hey guys, can we take this fight outside the "Latest and Greatest on Delta" thread?
I like reading about the changes in fleet numbers, staffing, hiring, routes and other objective information that this thread usually provides. The Latest and Greatest is that we still ALL have jobs, Delta is moving some of their newbies out of the way and NWA will enjoy bidding on 767's when the flying comes back. There might even be a little hiring. Our union really does not have the ability to change the NWA pilots' grievances at this time, in either direction. Individuals on a web board have an order of a magnitude's less power to effect the outcome. I think I speak for all pilots in saying we want you to be compensated by our contract and enjoy the best of the work rules because we don't want to be whipsawed by cheaper labor ourselves. The rest you have to either get over, or get another job. If fighting on a web board made any difference to ALPA, we'd have one pilot group doing all the brand's flying and all of us would be Captains. |
Thanks Bar. This thread was getting tiresome.
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