Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy

Carl, I'm just a pee-on here at DAL, hired in the last round of hiring.

You've done nothing but whine/complain pre and post-merger. I haven't seen you do anything but.

Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy

So stop with the rhetoric and send me an email with some details. I'm not going to search through your rants and piece together information.

Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy

So please, man up or shut up.

Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy

Grow a pair and ask the management themselves, face to face. Ask them the hard questions.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

You classify most anything you disagree with as whine/complain. There's a lot of that here.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

We've done that. The response is the same. Smiles, and "we'll look into it."

Carl

Originally Posted by keenster

ACL,
I may be uninformed, but no one I know has a good thing to say about the integration of procedures and policies. Really good people are all being replaced, retiring, or quiting thier jobs because of the in ablilty to input ideas and be taken seriously. They are pretty much slammed out of any process that might be taking place. Some pretty unbelieveable things have happened like "sit down and shut up there is a new sheriff in town". Its sad when the entire LCA group of one airplane has to do a letter about their position on a particular issue and threaten quiting in mass if they can't be heard. I call that pretty poor leadership in the flight ops portion of management at this company especially when dealing with a safety of flight item. We are not asking for things to go a certain way, It would be nice to have serious debate and really try to find best practices. I don't see that happening. I am waiting to see some glimmer of light that points to this taking place. Lip service is not what I am looking for. As Carl says, performance and results are what count.

Originally Posted by johnso29

Skywest guys have been dreaming of this for years. It's the only way they'll grow. It's just a pipedream rumor.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Talking to many of the folks like former chief pilots, former fleet leadership teams for -400, and former Directors of Operations is tough because they're gone now with more to follow.

Keenster's reference to the "issue" is exactly right. All LCA's on the -400 wrote a letter with supporting data. Their Delta supervisor responded to their letter by notifying them that he would be seeking their termination from the training command. JG denied the request for termination and all LCA's are still in the training command. Good on JG for doing that.

You asked for examples, and this is just one. Since you guys are fDAL, you're not seeing this stuff and we know that. It's just no way to treat fellow professionals. JG has better things to do than deal with that sort of stuff.

Carl

Originally Posted by Scoop

Keenster,

This is not a N vs. S issue. I also made less (I flew less) but it does not really mean anything. Imagine how much less you and I (and others) would have made without an hourly rate increase.

I dont understand how the 1.5 above 80 going away negatively affected guys since guys say they are taking home less with a higher pay-rate. The only way to do that is to get paid for less hours making the above 80 hour option seem dubious at best.

We can pick extreme winners and losers from both groups. How about the year 2000 hire prior NW guys who were furloughed for 3 or so years? Getting that time back they went from around 6 or 7 years seniority to 9 or 10 with a 15% or so pay-raise thrown in. I'm sure their W2s are way up year over year but this also does not mean that all N guys out this well. Conversely the NW reserve guys going from 75-70 hours may be making a lot less. Both sides will have winners and losers but if you average it out I think we are all doing better.

Bottom line - We will never be able to prove what would have happened without a merger one way or another. To every guy that says it is a fact that my W2 went down year over year, first off I say bummer, but I then submit the following question: What would have happened to your pay if we did not merge? Since No one, and I do emphatically mean no one (except maybe Nostradamus) can answer that question we are arguing hypotheticals.

Without the merger, and complicated SLI and flow-down issues, would Delta or Northwest have furloughed - unknown.

Without the merger would mainline at each airline have shrunk more - unknown.

Without the merger synergies what would have happened to revenue at a separate Delta and Northwest - unknown.

The Pacific really dried up - would that have affected a stand alone Northwest more adversely - unknown.

Europe also dried up - would that have affected a stand alone Delta more adversely - unknown.

Lets all just look at the train wreck called USAIR and be thankful. UAL and CAL Unions both say our merger is now the Gold Standard of airline mergers from a labor standpoint and for that I am very happy. My seniority in LAX has been fading quickly, bummer, but what would have happened to me without the merger - unknown.

Scoop

Originally Posted by johnso29

Well, I see I haven't missed much on here lately.