Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

No it's not! Many pilots still do corporate, or freight, or non-scheds. Not everybody goes the RJ route if you're civilian. Carl

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

That is a poor assumption. I know many RJ "Lifers" in their 40's that would be happy as all get out to get out of there. They were be even more for it if they knew that going to any of the majors would mean progression with no more scope sales. The true fear they have is that once again the job they take at the bottom of our list will be sold for pay, or retirement credits.

You hold or push back the limit on scope the dynamic changes and changes quickly. Many of these "lifers" would be throwing apps in without a thought in the world. Furthermore, there were plenty of guys that fell in to this category that came to DAL in the last wave. Why? Because the risk was worth the rewards, even with a CH11 contract, and even with the most recent scope sales. Thus far the gamble seems to have paid off.

I have many friends in the top 300 at a few regionals (top 20%) that will leave the second they get interviewed and hired. As for the few that state they are staying put, some mean it, but most just do not want to get furloughed in the next round. They saw too many friends back in 2001 and again in 2007 (UAL and CAL) barely finish training before they were going to Asia to find jobs.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

This is the heart of the problem IMO. This makes no sense if your goal is to work at a major. Your ruining chances for growth at a major and thus your hiring potential. If you're using the regionals to build time for a corporate gig, or a freight gig, or to be super prepared for military training, then it makes perfect sense. Otherwise...it doesn't.



That's is indeed part of the problem. The OTHER part is the RJ pilots who take those jobs ONLY because they've agreed to cheaper wages. Then complain about no hiring at the majors.



No it's not! Many pilots still do corporate, or freight, or non-scheds. Not everybody goes the RJ route if you're civilian.

Carl

Originally Posted by hoserpilot

You assume too much. The vast majority of regional pilots do NOT want to stay at the regionals. They would much rather gather experience and apply for a job at a major carrier.

The problem is that major airline pilots gave away the flying. Major airline pilots were too cool to fly those 'small jets' and didn't want them on the property. We, major airline pilots, allowed scope concessions and the creation of B-scale airlines (Compass) to grow. Didn't you work for the major airline that created Compass?? We both now work for the airline that gave away the most RJ's....silly pilots!

Most regional pilots I know say "SCREW THIS JOB" I wish those major airline pilots would grow some balls and not give away the farm!! Who wants to make a carreer at Mesa....uuggggg.

I used to commute weekly on UAL up and down the west coast. I had the same senior captain a few times. Each time he saw me he'd go on a rant about how regional pilots were ruining the industry. At that time my airline was taking delivery of shiny new 30 seat turbo-props....wow, I now had a hot 23 year flight attendant to look at and an APU!! We had just started getting a handful of RJ's to fly for UAL.

I got sick of sitting on my thumb and listening to his rant so I did some research on RJ proliferation at that time. Next week I brought the research that the American pilots had done. I also looked into how the regionals got the first RJ and how other major ALPA carriers pilots did not want to fly these jets due to the low offered pay scales that could potentially lower the bigger jets pay rates.

Armed with my info I politely asked for the jumpseat. It was the same senior UAL captain that greeted me with the usual, "aahh, it's the mosquito pilot trying to bum a ride again. You guys are trying to steal my job. Have a seat." The FO just shook his head in disgust.

We got to cruise and he started the rant again. This time I pulled out my ammo and we had a good debate. I presented facts, he presented emotion. He got upset when his FO looked at him and said, "you know, the mosquito pilot is right." After a few minutes of silence he admitted that I may have been right.

Carl, I didn't hit the lottery to get to Delta. I worked my way up through a system created over decades. This is the route civilian pilots take. Civilian pilots are heavily reliant on the path the senior pilots have carved for the junior guys. The decision senior pilots at a major airline made over the last 15-20 years are what created this mess. Now we have to fix it.

Originally Posted by FmrFreightDog

You make a very good point here, and I'm willing to admit that my first post was overstating the "lifer" effect a bit. However, I still think everyone needs to understand that that element is alive and well at the regional level, and it's not insignificant. My feeling is that it is steadily growing as well.

Originally Posted by RockyBoy

Carl I value your opinions on here because of the fact that you do have alot of experience and you have seen stuff many of us have not. However, a corporate, freight, or non-sched guy will be at a disadvantage to guys who have 121 jet flying in RJ's these days. I know guys who do interview prep courses and I know guys who do interviews at Delta. Both will agree with horsepilot that the quickest route to a major these days in through RJ flying. I don't know the numbers, but I'd bet less than 1% of pilots hired at majors come from places other than the military and RJ operators. I personally don't know any that came from freight or non-sched operators and I only know 1 that was prior corporate.

I have also never heard of anyone who went to fly an RJ so they could get super prepared for the military, not saying it hasn't happned, but I've certainly never heard of it.

Originally Posted by Superdad

Are you somehow trying to imply that becoming a regional pilot in hopes of getting hired by a major, is the root of the problem?

Again, DAL pilots gave away scope. It wasn't ALPA national and it definitely wasn't regional pilots that took it away. You have got to stop putting this ridiculous spin on the topic. With the exception of the misguided few at the RJDC, I doubt if you can find many RJ pilots who would rather be at the regional than at a major, and therefore want to "steal" your flying.

I must concur with the others, if your views on the subject are those of the DPA, then I am not interested.

Originally Posted by RockyBoy

Carl I value your opinions on here because of the fact that you do have alot of experience and you have seen stuff many of us have not. However, a corporate, freight, or non-sched guy will be at a disadvantage to guys who have 121 jet flying in RJ's these days. I know guys who do interview prep courses and I know guys who do interviews at Delta. Both will agree with horsepilot that the quickest route to a major these days in through RJ flying. I don't know the numbers, but I'd bet less than 1% of pilots hired at majors come from places other than the military and RJ operators. I personally don't know any that came from freight or non-sched operators and I only know 1 that was prior corporate.

I have also never heard of anyone who went to fly an RJ so they could get super prepared for the military, not saying it hasn't happned, but I've certainly never heard of it.

Originally Posted by chuck416

Well Said. Or, as someone else once wrote, "we have met the enemy, and it is us..." WE are the only ones who can take back scope. If we gave it away (and we most certainly did), we CAN take it back.

Chuck

Originally Posted by Superdad

Are you somehow trying to imply that becoming a regional pilot in hopes of getting hired by a major, is the root of the problem?