Originally Posted by johnso29

Here ya go tsquare. I even made what he was talking about bold for ya.

Originally Posted by tsquare

He has a really annoying habit of just responding to posts without much context... I think he is in some kind of contest to be the top forum poster in the world.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

Oh that is it! You got me. (Really who cares)

It was a response to the post directly above. I will go fix it for you sir.

Originally Posted by RockyBoy

Yep. A complete re-design of the 737 will take more than 10 years. About the best thing they can do is re-open the 757 line and hang GTF's on that airframe. Making the A320 15% more efficient makes it a viable transcon airframe and would allow us to have an all Airbus domestic fleet. That could save us alot of money vs. having a domestic fleet of 5 different types.

Originally Posted by tsquare

Yup.... looks like plainsmen... er.. uh tigers... uh.. war cam eagles and the ducks...

Originally Posted by Lifeisgood

Question for the 320 pilots:
When you go through the 320 initial training do they give you the cockpit poster?

I got all the manuals, but there was no poster. I like having them besides the pictures in vol 2.

Thx

Originally Posted by slowplay

Really?

Not.

USAirways went bankrupt. Twice. Went through the courts. Twice. What types of bankruptcy returns did they get? Twice. Oh, they started the process as the highest paid pilots in the country (for two months).

UAL went bankrupt. Their group learned a little from Airways. Their management still got two bites at the apple, but they got bankruptcy claim of $3 billion for their pilots (I think it paid 23 cents per dollar or less than $700 million) and a $550 million dollar note covering about 9200 pilots when their pension was terminated. They started the process as the second highest paid pilots in the industry.

When Delta went bankrupt we called for a summit of everyone who had been down that path. We negotiated a claim that paid $1.2+ billion in cash and a $650 million Note that was distributed among 6800 pilots. We started the process (pre-LOA 46 bankruptcy avoidance contract) as the highest paid pilots in the industry.

Everyone that chose to "fight" got their contract rejected. The AFA at NWA even got a court decision that screwed all of organized labor because it precludes the right to strike after a contract rejection. Brilliant. It's real easy to say "If ALPA would have told the company that we have contracts and are not willing to negotiate, we might have taken some pay cuts and still lost some pensions," when they're not yours to lose. You had no skin in the game, and the real world results don't match your rhetoric.

Oh, Hawaiian's creditors and shareowners were paid 100 cents on the dollar. Their bankruptcy wasn't exactly comparable to everyone elses. Their primary competitor Aloha wound up liquidating.

APA was first and early to the concession stand, undercutting most other legacy contracts beginning in May, 2003. That 23% pay reduction from their C97 rates (along with that from the rest of labor) allowed AMR management to avoid bankruptcy. A couple of other major carriers didn't participate in the pre-911 bargaining cycle, so they were frozen at rates substantially below those that led the way to bankruptcy.

Originally Posted by nerd2009

Consider that the company can feed specific info to ALPA to effect a desired outcome.

As a previous MEC Chair, I have witnessed this happening, and the "confidentiality" agreements with the MEC's prevent the MEC from presenting this opinion to the membership.

The corp legal teams know this, and know how to use this to affect their desired outcome.

Originally Posted by satchip

Financial reports and SEC filings are public record and can't be faked under penalty of law. The company can put their spin on the data, but the numbers are the numbers. I'm sure ALPA employs guys who know how to read a 10 something or other.

Originally Posted by jetnwa

Alfa,


Personally, I think the merger went extremely well. I hope we keep a good liquidity position and never get near Ch-11 again