Originally Posted by Check Essential

Some of it highly misleading.

It surprises me to see slowplay defend anything about the robber baron regime that ran Delta during that period.
The VP of Tech Ops is a "SERPent". He got one of the trust accounts.
Yes, the excess benefit (non-qualified) portion of management pensions was terminated in bankruptcy, AFTER the money (plussed up for taxes) was all paid out to the serp beneficiaries in the form of secular trusts.

And this:
"Nobody in management has an individual contract."

That might be the doozy of all misleading statements.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

Another excellent rewrite of history. The Northwest FA's rejected deals and their contract was rejected. That means they had a contract designed by management. They said they would strike and they were given a federal injunction barring them from striking. When they saw everyone else getting large bankruptcy claims they went crawling back to management and accepted their imposed "contract" in exchange for a small claim. Our non-contract flight attendants came out of bankruptcy better than they did. In fact, one of their "interference" claims is that Delta management is flouting the superior deal the non contract F/A's have. Even the AFA doesn't agree with your claim.

DAL first offered their bankruptcy ask to ALPA in August 2005. The final deal was signed in April 2006, 8 months later. It was not the first offer that came down from management it was not 10th or 20th, it was after a long series of negotiations, we took them to court, we took them to an arbitration, we organized our strike committee, we picketed, we took many actions that gave us the best bankruptcy deal amongst all the other carriers.

Aloha went into bankruptcy and they liquidated. Using your Hawaiin logic, you can say ALPA saved your job. All bankruptcies are different.

For a guy that claims so much experience, you seem to never get your facts or your history straight.

Originally Posted by Reroute

Carl, I'm not sure if the NWA pilots signed the first offer or not, but here are my notes from DAL's first offer. Since you seem to know so much, could you tell me whether these terms were accepted?

Company 1113 proposal

*200 79 Seat Jets
*Rotation value reduced by minutes under
* 19.5% pay reduction – No raises for 5 years
*100 Seat Pay $88.93
*Delete International Pay
*No Claim
*No Note
*Per Diem $1.80 domestic $2.05 international
*Vacation 2.45 per day eliminate 5th and 6th weeks
*Release time of 15 minutes versus 30
*Crew for flights over 12 hours- 1 Captain and 3 first officers
*No Duty Period Average
*Duty Period Minimum of 3 hours
*No Duty Period Credit
*No Rotation Credit
*Rotation Guarantee: Eliminate guarantee for trips interrupted
shortened due to reroute or irops
*Sick Leave: 20 hours/year full pay, 60% for excess
*Furlough pay reductions
*Eliminate all furlough protections
*No provision to put MPPP money in pilots control if pension is terminated
*Long term disability only 2 years coverage unless completely disabled and
unable to hold any job.
*5 year duration

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

The biggest fallacy I hear is "Vote No, It will always get better." In fact, most of the time it gets worse.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

He was asking Bastian why the management people didn't get their pensions/golden parachutes cancelled in bankrupcty.

Originally Posted by johnso29

Auburn is running away with it.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

You wouldn't know a fact unless ALPA told you what to say alfa. You could be one of the most shameless of all ALPA apologists.

The NWA FA's rejected at least 3 of their TA's that I know of. The deal they finally accepted was better than the first. We (NWA and DAL) accepted the very first offer. Make all the excuses you want, but that happened.

Hawaiian pilots did the same thing. The TA they accepted was FAR better than the first one they rejected. Make all the excuses you want when the facts don't suit your constant apologies. Like the Hawaiin bankruptcy was different than the DAL bankruptcy. There was one difference: the Hawaiian pilots voted down their first TA and got a better deal.

Now go call ALPA to ask how to respond.

Carl

Originally Posted by N9373M

I think they are still running. Congrats to Auburn. They really did a number on us tonight. The crowd was 75/25 % Auburn, which surprised me.

Tampa, here we come! Go Cocks!

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

Um.... go around.