Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-09-2011 | 11:37 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 383
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From: Delta M88 A ATL
IMHO ACL65pilot has always been respectful to everyone on this board. His posts are always full of good information and no abrasive.
That being said, Carl abrasiveness raises a few eyebrows.
What happened at NWA between the folks who kept their full pensions intact and the others who did not has brought out a lot of anger. Most of that was from the more junior pilots most affected, not the other way around.
nuf said!
That being said, Carl abrasiveness raises a few eyebrows.
What happened at NWA between the folks who kept their full pensions intact and the others who did not has brought out a lot of anger. Most of that was from the more junior pilots most affected, not the other way around.
nuf said!
01-09-2011 | 11:39 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
So the company comes to DALPA and says. "We would like to convert 20 of our 70 seaters allowed to 76 seaters. If you agree we have a tentative order for 100 C series jets. The switch from 70 seaters will occur in a 1 for 5 ratio. For each 5 C series jets on the property and flying we get to convert 1 70 seater to a 76 seater. The overall fleet number which is currently at XXX cannot go below the current number plus the C series slots or we lose the extra 76 seaters. If C series jets are removed from the fleet we remove the 76 seats in a inverse proportion. Deliveries of the C series will start in 6 months and we will post a bid next week.
Would you say no???
Would you say no???
I would try to educate myself of the deal. If my initial response turned out to be correct, I would poll my Reps. If any of them sounded like they were even going to consider it, I would try to convince them not to and ask for their commitment. If I was unpersuasive, I would launch a recall and try to get them out of office before they had a chance to vote on outsourcing more Delta flying. I would ask friends in other Councils to do the same.
No more outsourcing, not one more seat, not one more pound. Delta can operate these airplanes with Delta pilots. We have at least 300 guys already typed on that equipment. No more scope deals, unless it recovers Delta jobs to Delta Air Lines. We'll take flying back. No more sales.
Of course, most scope deals are done in the dark. Politicians are pretty good at hiding these acts of legerdemain until it is a fait accompli. But, Delta pilots have their sources too. Delta hires leaders. As Delta hires more pilots who are experienced in the ways of outsourcing the level of political activism will rise. Eventually they will get their hands on the tiller and ALPA will take a swerve for the right, towards a more conservative union which focuses on its representational foundation.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 01-09-2011 at 12:03 PM.
01-09-2011 | 12:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
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From: 737A
Does anyone have any updated information about the Jan AE? Like maybe why was it delayed?
01-09-2011 | 12:05 PM
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
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From: A-320A
ACL, Carl has an agenda and you're on the other side so you're a target. I, never in a million years, read from your posts that you hate senior guys. I wouldn't waste my time trying to reason if I were you. I'd rather see your opinions and your usual informative posts then you trying to repel attacks from a red book whale guy. Take care.
Actually the number of DALN pilots with significant frozen pensions is quite small, however the number of pilots staying past 60 is bordering 75%, mainly because of our industry trailing, cobra priced retiree medical and staying until they can get medicare. So yes, it is your junior pilot @ss interest for them to get better medical and move on. Right now back of the napkin mean retirement is 62-63. I'm sure you don't mind delaying that upgrade another 3 years just so you can show those greedy senior guys. 
A senior / junior divide is counterproductive. Both need each other to achieve success in contract negotiations. Carl's understanding and support for better scope is very much appreciated by the junior guys on this board.
By the same token, I know what ACL is referring to because I've heard the same things he his hearing from his mostly DAL-S Captains who have enjoyed the seniority to avoid the worst of the last decade and who also enjoy the luxury of tuning most of this crap out.
This board is like monitoring HF. There is a good bit of static along with useful information. For junior guys who's QOL is effected by a single airplane's staffing, it is well worth following every ride report. For the Senior guys, there is only a few things that will make the HF go DING that rises to their attention.
ACL is probably telling them a lot they were never motivated enough to dig up on their own. When the going got real tough, the tough retired early and our current Senior pilots upgraded to maintain level earnings. Not saying they did not take cuts like everyone else, but they had earned the seniority to side step the ugliest effects of mismanagement.
Now with PBS and computer scheduling the difference between senior and junior is STARK! Senior guys get the very best and junior guys get the very worst. It is easy to draw a line that divides us. We can not let that happen.
By the same token, I know what ACL is referring to because I've heard the same things he his hearing from his mostly DAL-S Captains who have enjoyed the seniority to avoid the worst of the last decade and who also enjoy the luxury of tuning most of this crap out.
This board is like monitoring HF. There is a good bit of static along with useful information. For junior guys who's QOL is effected by a single airplane's staffing, it is well worth following every ride report. For the Senior guys, there is only a few things that will make the HF go DING that rises to their attention.
ACL is probably telling them a lot they were never motivated enough to dig up on their own. When the going got real tough, the tough retired early and our current Senior pilots upgraded to maintain level earnings. Not saying they did not take cuts like everyone else, but they had earned the seniority to side step the ugliest effects of mismanagement.
Now with PBS and computer scheduling the difference between senior and junior is STARK! Senior guys get the very best and junior guys get the very worst. It is easy to draw a line that divides us. We can not let that happen.
IMHO ACL65pilot has always been respectful to everyone on this board. His posts are always full of good information and no abrasive.
That being said, Carl abrasiveness raises a few eyebrows.
What happened at NWA between the folks who kept their full pensions intact and the others who did not has brought out a lot of anger. Most of that was from the more junior pilots most affected, not the other way around.
nuf said!
That being said, Carl abrasiveness raises a few eyebrows.
What happened at NWA between the folks who kept their full pensions intact and the others who did not has brought out a lot of anger. Most of that was from the more junior pilots most affected, not the other way around.
nuf said!
01-09-2011 | 12:05 PM
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
From: The Flying Wasp
IMHO ACL65pilot has always been respectful to everyone on this board. His posts are always full of good information and no abrasive.
That being said, Carl abrasiveness raises a few eyebrows.
What happened at NWA between the folks who kept their full pensions intact and the others who did not has brought out a lot of anger. Most of that was from the more junior pilots most affected, not the other way around.
nuf said!
That being said, Carl abrasiveness raises a few eyebrows.
What happened at NWA between the folks who kept their full pensions intact and the others who did not has brought out a lot of anger. Most of that was from the more junior pilots most affected, not the other way around.
nuf said!
Agreed 100 %
01-09-2011 | 12:06 PM
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
Likes: 0
From: A-320A
01-09-2011 | 12:06 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,642
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From: right for a long, long time
Why would anyone need that deal? Is it in our long term strategic interest to outsource more flying to a jet with better operating economics than a MD88? Would there be more Delta pilots hired with, or without that deal? What makes D-ALPA more powerful by representing the most pilots? Does management really need that relief to by an airplane? Why do pilots have to buy airplanes through scope concessions? Seems counter intuitive to me.
I would try to educate myself of the deal. If my initial response turned out to be correct, I would poll my Reps. If any of them sounded like they were even going to consider it, I would try to convince them not to and ask for their commitment. If I was unpersuasive, I would launch a recall and try to get them out of office before they had a chance to vote on outsourcing more Delta flying. I would ask friends in other Councils to do the same.
No more outsourcing, not one more seat, not one more pound. Delta can operate these airplanes with Delta pilots. We have at least 300 guys already typed on that equipment. No more scope deals, unless it recovers Delta jobs to Delta Air Lines. We'll take flying back. No more sales.
Of course, most scope deals are done in the dark. Politicians are pretty good at hiding these acts of legerdemain until it is a fait accompli. But, Delta pilots have their sources too. Delta hires leaders. As Delta hires more pilots who are experienced in the ways of outsourcing the level of political activism will rise. Eventually they will get their hands on the tiller and ALPA will take a swerve for the right, towards a more conservative union which focuses on its representational foundation.
I would try to educate myself of the deal. If my initial response turned out to be correct, I would poll my Reps. If any of them sounded like they were even going to consider it, I would try to convince them not to and ask for their commitment. If I was unpersuasive, I would launch a recall and try to get them out of office before they had a chance to vote on outsourcing more Delta flying. I would ask friends in other Councils to do the same.
No more outsourcing, not one more seat, not one more pound. Delta can operate these airplanes with Delta pilots. We have at least 300 guys already typed on that equipment. No more scope deals, unless it recovers Delta jobs to Delta Air Lines. We'll take flying back. No more sales.
Of course, most scope deals are done in the dark. Politicians are pretty good at hiding these acts of legerdemain until it is a fait accompli. But, Delta pilots have their sources too. Delta hires leaders. As Delta hires more pilots who are experienced in the ways of outsourcing the level of political activism will rise. Eventually they will get their hands on the tiller and ALPA will take a swerve for the right, towards a more conservative union which focuses on its representational foundation.
Well said.
01-09-2011 | 12:43 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,350
Likes: 0
From: Flying the SEC
A little break and red meat for the masses:
TMZ covers the BCS National Championship with a prediction by a guy who knows nothing about football but a lot about babes... Auburn babes vs Oregon babes
Enjoy. Now continue with the written karate chops.
TMZ covers the BCS National Championship with a prediction by a guy who knows nothing about football but a lot about babes... Auburn babes vs Oregon babes
Enjoy. Now continue with the written karate chops.
All I can say is War Eag... No, I just can't say it. But I hope you win.
I'll be here in ATL, alone in my hotel, watching the game on a low def small screen tv... hint hint
01-09-2011 | 12:58 PM
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
Actually the number of DALN pilots with significant frozen pensions is quite small, however the number of pilots staying past 60 is bordering 75%, mainly because of our industry trailing, cobra priced retiree medical and staying until they can get medicare. So yes, it is your junior pilot @ss interest for them to get better medical and move on. Right now back of the napkin mean retirement is 62-63. I'm sure you don't mind delaying that upgrade another 3 years just so you can show those greedy senior guys.
01-09-2011 | 01:20 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
Likes: 0
IMHO ACL65pilot has always been respectful to everyone on this board. His posts are always full of good information and no abrasive.
That being said, Carl abrasiveness raises a few eyebrows.
What happened at NWA between the folks who kept their full pensions intact and the others who did not has brought out a lot of anger. Most of that was from the more junior pilots most affected, not the other way around.
nuf said!
That being said, Carl abrasiveness raises a few eyebrows.
What happened at NWA between the folks who kept their full pensions intact and the others who did not has brought out a lot of anger. Most of that was from the more junior pilots most affected, not the other way around.
nuf said!
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