Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-09-2011, 10:08 AM
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by nwaf16dude
Any one have any idea when we'll see a projected category list or conversion list from the last AE?
02-09-2011, 11:21 AM
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Always wondered what people did for fun in MN in the winter.
"These family rooms are like any other — except walleye come up through the floor"
Ice fishing goes upscale in Mille Lacs, Minn. - Travel - Destination Travel - US and Canada - msnbc.com
"These family rooms are like any other — except walleye come up through the floor"
Ice fishing goes upscale in Mille Lacs, Minn. - Travel - Destination Travel - US and Canada - msnbc.com
02-09-2011, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
You can log in to the DALPA site and then go to the C54 main page. From there, go to their file library. The same holds true of every council's publications and updates. When you log in you are on the MEC's main page. Ergo, that library is for the MEC publications and data.
Not true. The last uploads to that site are 10/11/2010 (looks like a batch upload). The only place that I know you can see the update is on the ALPA message board or if you know someone in SEA and can have them forward it to you.
02-09-2011, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
Exactly! We're getting Seinfeld when what we really need is... well... Jack Bauer! 
02-09-2011, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack Bauer
Dissarming a nuclear bomb and saving the president in 24 hours is childs play compared to getting this union to publically support scope recapture, pay restoration and represent the average line pilot
02-09-2011, 01:56 PM
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If you don't recapture scope then i want to see a recapture of all this code- share flying.
02-09-2011, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 1234
Not true. The last uploads to that site are 10/11/2010 (looks like a batch upload). The only place that I know you can see the update is on the ALPA message board or if you know someone in SEA and can have them forward it to you.
Give it a day or two then.
02-09-2011, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack Bauer
Dissarming a nuclear bomb and saving the president in 24 hours is childs play compared to getting this union to publically support scope recapture, pay restoration and represent the average line pilot
Distinguished Members of the APA Board of Directors:
Before I begin, I would like to personally thank each and every one of you for the service you provide our members. I know full well the long and thankless hours you all put in protecting the welfare of those you represent. For that you have my sincere appreciation.
No doubt as the negotiation process begins to heat up, the demands will increase and the stress level will intensify. There will be difficult decisions before us, including some that may be unpopular. It's important we keep our focus keen and support each other when the times get tough.
We're now coming up on the five-year anniversary of when management opened up contract negotiations. Your National Officers know what the pilots want in this contract. We know that our earning power is diminishing each and every day. We know what sacrifices the pilots have made. We hear the anger--we feel the frustration. Two out of three of us are still first officers after nearly 20 years. We have a very clear picture of what the priorities are, with scope, pay, retro, work rules and stagnation at the very top.
I'm going to tell it straight. For the past several years, APA has played the blame game. We've blamed management, we've blamed the National Mediation Board and we've blamed the recession. We've portrayed ourselves as victims of an unfair world.
It's time we look in the mirror and get honest with ourselves. In APA's extensive contract proposal crafted several years ago, we opened on a large number of items in nearly every section of our contract. Instead of concentrating on the most immediate and important items, we created a wish list for a "dream contract," asking for dramatic increases throughout the contract. We loaded up the openers with "throwaways" and put hundreds of items on the table--of which approximately 320 still remain.
We told the whole world that we didn't know or care how much our demands cost. We said we didn't care what was going on with the economy or with the corporation's economics. We didn't consult with professional negotiators. We abandoned working within established industry protocols and severed ties with management.
These are some of the reasons the NMB and the United States government put APA in recess. The NMB told us to clean up our act. They told us that it does matter how much our "demands" cost, to quit bickering over internal governance and that we needed a leader who was empowered to make decisions. They were clear that APA's radical rhetoric had isolated us and that APA did not have many friends in Washington. They were concerned that the APA Negotiating Committee had no authority to bargain and that much of what they brought back was rejected. Lastly, when I was first elected APA President, the NMB was very direct in stating that there appeared to be no one in charge at the union. The NMB considered APA a basket case and no longer wished to waste resources. Fortunately for us, much of this has now been reversed.
Since our openers, we have refused to remove any items from the table and come off any of our more "interesting" demands. To do so--according to some--would be "negotiating against ourselves," or so the mantra goes. But what we've really done is to paint ourselves into a corner, thereby playing right into management's hands. We've given them the tools to slow negotiations down as much as they want. After five years, we still haven't had any serious negotiations on some of the most important items such as scope, pay, retro, stagnation and others. At the rate we are going, we could literally spend the next decade in negotiations.
For example, we spent nearly seven months talking about system board (Section 23) and free internet for pilots. I don't need to take a poll to conclude that most pilots would rather have their pay raises now versus waiting for the next recession to hit. It's time we accept ownership of our past mistakes, quit playing the blame game and get the ship back on course.
As I mentioned to you last month, I asked the Negotiating Committee to estimate how long it will take to complete these negotiations, given what we have on the table and the current rate of progress. And as you all know, the number came back at 12.4 years. That's YEARS, not months. As I have been saying since August, our bargaining plan is seriously flawed and it's time we change course. We all know what Albert Einstein said about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
I believe we've assembled the pieces we need to get this contract moving. We've rebuilt our relationships all across the spectrum: in Washington, with the NMB, with many on Wall Street and with other pilot unions. We're now having meaningful dialogue with management for the first time in years. We've got a great committee structure, three National Officers working superbly with each other and we have an excellent Negotiating Committee assisted by one of the world's most experienced pilot negotiators. We've got a great SPC team and have access to all of ALPA's resources and expertise. Your three National Officers are ready and resolute.
Scott, Tony and I alone cannot move things any further without the support and collaboration of the APA Board of Directors. As you all know, we lack the authority to make the policy decisions that need to be made. I called for last month's Board meeting to start the process of changing course and moving forward. I know that most of you are strongly supportive of a course correction. It's time we listen to our professional negotiators and consultants and put these talks onto our timetable--not management's. The membership says we need to make these decisions now--not to schedule more polls and studies and a lot more Board meetings.
I was elected by American's pilots to lead us to obtaining an industry-leading contract and that's exactly what I plan to do. This contract absolutely must be a landmark contract. Leadership sometimes requires making tough choices. It's time to prioritize what's really important and leave some of the underbrush for next time. Although some members will balk at this, I believe most will embrace our efforts to break the gridlock and move forward as quickly as possible.
We all know the real movement will come after the NMB re-engages with APA. Absent a negotiated settlement, I am confident that the NMB will eventually grant us a release when we are down to the handful of items that are truly important to American's pilots.
It's time we get serious about clearing out the underbrush. Our pilots want an industry-leading contract now--not years from now. As it is longstanding past practice, I would like to remind all that when sitting as a body your responsibility is to the membership first and then to your domiciles secondarily. I would like to ask all those submitting reports to keep the discussions concise and limited to the items where Board action is anticipated or desired.
We have much to accomplish this week. I would like to ask all in attendance to remain focused on the issues at hand and keep our discussions concise and to the point.
Captain Dave Bates
APA President
02-09-2011, 04:08 PM
seeing the large hubs...
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Posts: 3,706
Wow. W-O-W. That's an incredible shot across the bow of "wish-list" negotiating. And it isn't some random guy posting, it's the head of the APA (Allied Pilots Association, the American Airlines union).
I knew they had been working on a contract for a while, but 5 years. Think of all the payraises they have wasted away by trying for a incredible contract. If they had just had a regular ol' contract with cost-of-living increases they would be ready for another contract already and already have had 5 years of raises.
I think everyone should read this - it's a good tutorial on how NOT to get a new contract.
I knew they had been working on a contract for a while, but 5 years. Think of all the payraises they have wasted away by trying for a incredible contract. If they had just had a regular ol' contract with cost-of-living increases they would be ready for another contract already and already have had 5 years of raises.
I think everyone should read this - it's a good tutorial on how NOT to get a new contract.
02-09-2011, 04:14 PM
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Position: A-320/A
Posts: 588
Anybody who has been paying attention knows that morale can't be too good over at A/A. I had no idea that their union/management relationship was so bad. I sincerely hope that they get their contract soon.
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