Slow,

You normally are pretty accurate, but I can't go down your path on this one.

The FACT is that the outsourced products (RJ's) flown by fellow ALPA pilots in the DAL network have suffered MUCH more and been relatively stagnant or shrunk while NON-ALPA outsourced flying has grown.

The analysis I would like to see is much like what Bar states...How much money has DAL inc. WASTED on duplicate management/training/scheduling and other functions..........and GUARANTEED PROFITS to OTHER companies. The number might not be a amazing as some would want to believe, but it'd still be nice to have the facts...rather than "trust me, you wouldn't like it."

You are correct that the furoulghs are happening "beneath" us (for NOW anyway). That is not the point.

When the furloughs were happening here there was not a system in place to keep ALPA Delta Pilots flying Delta Passengers in a seniority honoring system.

Also, we have so much faith in the ability of ALPA to negotiate "multi-layered" and "effective" furlough mitigation strategies. Along with the TLV staffing formulas, other work rules, etc.; it would stand to reason that furloughs would have been much less severe and MORE pilots would be protected and defended with a better PWA (mainline vs. a whipsawed RJ feeders' CBA).


I disagree with the notion some have stated that "Unity solves all problems." Not true, but Unity DOES mitigate many problems and serve to keep the focus of everyone on the same goal, rather than multiple groups striving for disparate goals.

We supposedly belong to a pilot union, not a pilot dis-union.

OFF TOPIC: (Besides the fact that single-list flying from top to bottom is safer from an experience standpoint. No more 5 yr. CA's...More like every CA is 9-15 yrs and FOs spend 10-15 years being an "apprentice", learning from the more experienced pilots, therefore preparing BETTER captains for the next generation to learn from.)

 

Of course unity does not solve pay issues, and the like, but the fact is a unified front solves the issue you discuss.


The real savings from DCI is DAL's ability to get debt off of its balance sheet. It makes operating jets off the certificate cheaper. We need to think outside the box on this one.

 

Come on, ACL. You're tap dancing around this like a seasoned politician. Without going back and finding the quotes, you either said "unity solves all problems" or you wholeheartedly agreed with it several times. Now you say the above? Sorry, pal... can't have it both ways.

Here's my take on "unity solves all problems". These guys are "unified!" Pay particular attention to the narration at the end of the clip.

YouTube - Lemming Migration Along the Norwegian Coast.

 

I'm late for pick-up and will respond later, but this caught my eye. Isn't this what CMR has (senior Captains with long term FO's) and isn't that what's killing them in the pilot cost department? You understand that if you transferred that to DAL the result would be the same?

 

In that article about MSP and Gov Dayton, Dayton: Airport needs to have more options | StarTribune.com, I think all you need to know are these two lines:

Sounding a populist tone in support of passengers, Gov. Mark Dayton on Thursday called for greater competition among airlines at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport to curb ticket costs and provide better services.

and then this:

In an interview after the gathering, Dayton didn't offer specific strategies for fostering competition.

How come these two sentences never got put together I don't know.

 

That is probably true and I'm volunteering for the job.

 

He could place a call to his compatriot at St. Louis and ask how things are going there. I'm sure he's not busy.

The thing is, if Delta was not in MSP, who would be? What would become of the shopping Mall? Don't get me wrong, it is a beautiful city with a few nice people, but it is not exactly Disney World this time of year.

Seems like a big employer with operations that make your paycheck would be more appreciated by a local politician. Wonder how many Delta employees vote in the area?

 

No, because once you hit twelve years it doesn't matter how senior the pilot force is. The cost becomes stagnant.

 

I will save you the trouble. Bar said it and I agree. Point is the unity cannot solve items like Cabatoge or Foreign ownership, but a single unified voice of all pilots domestically though ALPA and internationally though IFALPA does solve the issue of each group going for what suits their purpose at that time. Having a group of independents with a lose affiliation actually hurts the profession as a whole.

Wrt to my other post that it does not solve everything; What that should be translated as, is: Unity cannot bring back your pay, retirement, etc with a wave of the unity wand. What it will do it unity the profession as a whole where each group quite worrying about I and once again worries about WE. It is a big deal, and it is the point on which ALPA was founded.

ALPA has, since its inception grappled with issues, but the deal with them internally. That is better for the profession, and long term you and I. Isolationism, and the basic lack of unity that an independent offers may for a short time help one pilot group's set of causes but over time, it will cause may issues.

As bar points out, there is no benefit for the RJET pilots to become ALPA. They fair better than our regional ALPA counter parts do with awarded flying. They are undercutting the profession and us for short term gains, when the long term gains are in jeopardy. You can argue that it is not them that awards the flying, and yes, to a point that is correct, but if we as a profession actually unified; regional, supplemental, LCC, Legacies and the like, the long term benefits far outweigh the snipping that would go on within our own house. Think if it as two brothers, they can hate each other, but when one goes after the other, they are steadfast allies. Same would be true on a single UNIFIED voice of the entire piloting profession.

The ideal of independence or a lose association on the national scale is horribly short sighted. I am not saying ALPA does not have work to do, they do, but do not shoot the profession in the foot over it. What needs to happen will not happen because, frankly pilots are just too selfish, and that trait plays in to any and all of our opponents goals and aspirations. Again, extremely short sighted.

 

Anyone having trouble logging in to the DALPA site this afternoon? I've been trying off and on for the past couple of hours. After I enter my ALPA # and password, I get the following message:

The page isn't redirecting properly

Firefox has detected that the server is redirecting the request for this address in a way that will never complete.

* This problem can sometimes be caused by disabling or refusing to accept cookies.

I have not changed any settings in Firefox. I also just tried this using Safari and got the following message:

Safari can’t open the page.
Too many redirects occurred trying to open “Public. This might occur if you open a page that is redirected to open another page which then is redirected to open the original page.