iaflyer

Yes - they had all those things, but what they were missing was this: a sense of reality.

The pilots over there needed to look at the AA's situation, look at the other employee groups were likely to get and determine what is realistically attainable. Sure, they could "demand" to bring the outsourced flying in house and fly all of it. They could "demand" pay raise of 53%. They could demand this and that, but realistically, what could they get? Remember, they are asking for this on top of having their defined benefit pension, something I think no other passenger carrier has.

AA has the highest cost structure in the industry. It's not good or bad, it's the facts. I will admit that it seems like AA has some weak leadership, but the biggest problem that we all (all passenger airline employees) face is that airline seats are a commodity. I would say the majority of leisure passengers pick an airline based on ticket price. I think probably 50% of business travelers pick based on price. So - a larger percentage of your passengers pick on price, and sites like Orbitz or Expedia, which publish Spirit's price next to other airline's price make the revenue problem B-A-D. An airline can't raise prices to account for higher internal costs like labor, newer aircraft or better service.

For example, if I look at Orbitz from DTW-FLL for a trip, Spirit's price is $264 where Delta is $268 (both non-stop). I'd say most people would price Spirit, because it's cheaper. but, when they get to the gate, and realize the have to pay for a soda, pay for putting a bag in the overhead, etc. will be ****ed and end up paying more than they would for the Delta flight. But in a year when they go to FLL again, they'll forget all about that and go on Spirit again.

Anyway - back to APA's problem. In the end, American can only generate so much profit so there is only so much cash to share with the employees. I think by demanding so much, the management just threw their hands in the air and say "we can't work with this, this is crazy".

Like I said, I think it would of worked much better to have simpler demands that the company and the union can actually discuss rather than a dream-list that takes 12 years to work through.

Jesse

I don't pretend to know all the in's and out's of contract negotiation, but I do know I'd be severely disappointed at waiting 5 years, let alone 12 to get what is deserved/needed. That being said, I don't understand why a union wouldn't have justification to go out on strike way before it got to the 5 year point. Maybe they did have the justification, but decided to keep on keepin' on. Can't say I'd be one to vote for going along with that mentality.

Carl Spackler

Our national president should actually be DOING something about the NMB. But just like Scope, it is not even mentioned as a threat or even a concern. No mention at all.

A government body is abusing its power to remove the right to strike in the transportation industry, and they do so entirely at their discretion. Such a law in Congress could not possibly pass. Yet a bureaucracy is doing just that. The response from our national president located in DC...NOTHING.

Carl

iaflyer

That's the thing about negotiations under the RLA. The union doesn't get to decide when they've had enough, the National Mediation Board (NMB) decides. Unfortunately from what I've heard, the NMB got annoyed at APA and their shooting for the moon strategy, so they basically put them into "Timeout" and told them to figure what they really wanted before they talked to the company again.

The NMB board will let a union strike, theoretically, but (a) under Bush administration that wasn't going to happen and (b) the NMB has to believe both sides are presenting a reasonable offer and are actually trying to talk. It seems that they decided the APA wasn't acting in good faith.

Carl Spackler

It's because the NMB is acting like they've never acted before. They are no longer acting as MEDIATORS like they should. They are acting like JUDGES by refusing to declare an impasse until labor caves in to the demands of the NMB. Not the demands of management, the demands of the NMB.

Unless this is reigned in by the united efforts of transportation labor, we will all have to understand that our right to strike has been removed by the NMB.

Carl

iaflyer

I agree that a union should be able to strike if they want, BUT, I think that most of America doesn't agree. They think a strike is selfish, arrogant and disrupts the commerce of the country.

Karnak

Welcome back, Mr. Van Winkle. You've missed a lot while you were asleep.

Add the courts, FAA, NTSB, Congress to your list, and you'll START to see the scope of the problem.

But you've made a forum focused effort to blame ALPA for all that's wrong. If the court jacks us in Chapter 11...ALPA screwed it up. If the NTSB overreacts to a pilot mistake...ALPA failed those guys! If ALPA prevents "baseball arbitration" and other efforts to make it harder for us...ALPA is wasting our money on regionals pilots!

Thank goodness CAPA has our back!

iaflyer

Carl has a point - ALPA does point to all it's connections in Washington and ability to get stuff done there, but when the rubber meets the road, nothing happens. ALPA does get into the Congressman and Senator's office and speaks their mind, but it's not a strong voice and does a poor job of implementing change that is good for it's members.

PRIME example - I did a quick search of my email in-box, in the last month I have 4 emails/press releases from ALPA talking about Hand-held lasers and making it a federal crime. I think that's an issue that most of us honestly don't care about.

The last email I have from ALPA mentioning Crewpass was TWO MONTHS ago. I think almost ALL pilots would prefer efforts to be made on Crewpass rather than Lasers.

DAL 88 Driver

Gosh, I forgot about that! We're already all the way back to our pre-bankruptcy pay rates!!! Moak said it in his last letter as MEC King. Life is good... happy times are here again!!! Party's at my house!

Oh..... about those rates we're back to. They're the rates after we took a 32.5% pay cut?! And our current rates are basically just the bankruptcy/emergency rates adjusted for inflation? Well then never mind. My bad.

(But we have gotten a few token pay and contract increases while the "vocal" APA has gotten nothing. We got that going for us!)

Karnak

We're lucky Carl's figured it out! It's the NMB, in the parlor, with a knife.

All that money Carl has sent to ALPA-PAC, and all those letters he's written to support ALPA's efforts - wasted.

Oh, wait....