RockyBoy,

Take a long hard look at the AF route map on their website...they fly from CDG to every major city around the periphery of the US...at least 14 major markets...you see the AF 777s and hear more of them on the radios...I believe we've given up tons of flying, it's just been below the radar. We fly to CDG from CVG/ATL/SLC (Not NYC).

Vark

The dutch are very sharp trade wise, they have very strong unions..I believe the only thing that would limit their additional flying would be aircraft. Varkdriver is correct, "open skies" is the holy grail for Europe, think about it how many places can you go in France or Netherlands...vs what they can do coming over here. AF may have made the merger, but it will be the Dutch that run the company.

The talking points will be: in these days of reduced revenue and economic hardships...it only makes sense to share with our partners, and we will recapture the flying after the economy gets better...when 2015? Once the flying leaves its very difficult to get it back, think about scope complaints and the connectors that has been talked about on this board.

I don't believe that the current political group wants one large airline, and hopfully will not relax the foeign ownership rules.

Why does everyone think we will "give it up to KLM/AF"?

Pilots Salary at KLM





As of 2006.....I'm sure its more now. ALSO add in mandatory pension funding the company must pay and any bonus structure.

Yes, we ALL know taxes are higher there, but we are talking about EXPENSE TO THE COMPANY.

The pilots at KLM/AF should be afraid that the "low paid US pilots" will be taking THEIR flying, not the other way around.

I'm ALL FOR merging pilot groups with the KLM/AF guys, we would have leverage to shut down approximately 28% of the world's capacity (of the top 15 airlines worldwide, its all I could get numbers for). The Euro pilots would NEVER work under "RLA style" labor agreements.

Messed up when I loaded the thread and got the post above, I thought WOW, good news, then realized that was 2007.

Deleted, everyone already knows how I feel about outsourcing.

I've seen their routemap and it doesn't tell the story of who has taken or given routes with the JV. If we didn't have the JV do you think DAL would be doing those routes from CDG to the US that AF does now? The only route they do that we used to do it the JFK-CDG route. I don't know if any of the stuff we are doing into CDG used to be done by AF, but I know we wouldn't be doing CVG or SLC to CDG if we didn't have the JV so that is a plus. I've also heard that SLC-AMS is coming and it will be done in the 330 so there is another route we wouldn't do without the JV. I also think that there are some East coast cities that DAL will fly to CDG from when the economy turns around. I think we've gained more than we've given so far.

I really see this happening in the next decade or so. Foreign ownership rules WILL be removed, the RLA is already being questioned, and it really makes no sense to operate Delta, AirFrance, and KLM as one company with all the overlap. When they can, the savings to operate the companies with one management team will be so large that they would be stupid not to merge everything into one.

Just heard a rumor about parking 4 747-400's. Don't know how soon. Anybody else heard this!?! Anybody???? Please tell me they're mixing them up with 747-200's. :(

I heard that one too from a -400 driver. I think she said by the end of summer because of demand. That and probably that the 777's & 767's are picking up the Asia flying.

Does this surprise you?? We, (Delta North) are going to get crushed in the next few months before SOC. We are going to take the hits with the 200s going away and now some 400s. Throw in that the only PROTECTED aircraft we had were the 400, 200 and mythical 787 we are hosed. The RDs have the 777 with more coming that we are restricted from(even though they will be used on the routes we brought) and for some reason the 767-400 is protected, but the 330 is not. We are going to take the displacements prior to SOC but after BP5/SOC when the JCBA work rules kick in, the Southwill be able to bid the extra posistions created(except the shrinking 400 fleet). They out maneuvered us at every turn. Good for them, bad for us.