Carl Spackler

That's not what the NMB has "basically" said you little wordsmith you. The NMB would only need to hear an explanation from MANAGEMENT as to why raising fares a few dollars per ticket would bankrupt the company. This is NOT the pilots' issue at Delta. C2K restoration is easily and provably affordable by Delta Air Lines, but they desperately need people like you to fight for management's point of view.

True. But the NMB has never done this before until the American case. Whether this is an isolated case is unknown, but NMB has never held a labor group hostage until they capitulated to management's position. This is plowing all new ground.

Again, what NMB is doing at American is DIFFERENT than every other case they have ever handled. We would be hoping the NMB handles our case THE SAME as they have done in every other case other than American.

Carl

forgot to bid

Alfa I completely agree with your sentiment, just struggle with the amount and direction of the shear push back some insiders have in the scope and pay conversations.

shiznit

"Never"? Strong word.....Maybe a little bit of hyperbole? Can you admit that much?

PNCL 5+ years (last cycle)
TSA 6+ years
CAL 3+ years
AA 4+ years
ASA 3+ years (last cycle)
US 3+ years
HP 4+ years
RAH 3+ years
Spirit 4+ years (last cycle)

forgot to bid

To not beat RAH at this game is to green light Skywest into doing the same exact multi-certificate competition creating fiasco.

The NMB did everything they could to show STS can be proven with RAH and thus they're in violation of our scope among other issues.

But If the MEC wants the definition changed such that RAH and everyone else include AMR/AE is immediately found to be in violation of our scope then i'm all for it and I like their methods.

If that's what they're up to. Alfa? Slow?

alfaromeo

Yes, Carl, I can only hope to some day have your intense courage. What a brave person you are behind a keyboard. Really, I am in awe of you

Your analysis of the APA's problems is once again completely wrong. They weren't told, "you have too many issues" they were told "you will NEVER achieve anything close to your goals, so come back when either they are achievable or you change your goals." The NMB will work through issue after issue even if it takes years. They will not waste their time when there is no hope for an agreement. I am not sure why you try to confuse the issue with your fabricated ideas, but perhaps I really do know.

Your statement about adding a few dollars to the price of tickets is almost infantile. If they could add a few dollars to the price of tickets why don't they do it tomorrow? What are they waiting for? I know, they are mismanaging the entire corporation just to affect pilot negotiations. Holy moly.

The best outcome for us will be achieved as the entire industry makes steps forward. That means I want APA to succeed, I want SWAPA to succeed, I want CAL/UAL to succeed, I want them all to move forward. As costs rise across the board, then all carriers will have to raise ticket prices and then they all can afford higher wages. If the APA continues to fail it only makes our job tougher. If we fail like the APA then we are only part of the problem.

Don't listen to me, listen to the APA. They themselves are saying the exact same things I am saying. They are revising their goals and working with ALPA professional economists and negotiators to help them establish their goals.

You have the luxury of pounding your chest and making self serving pronouncements of your virtue. Luckily, there are others who are willing to accomplish things so all our lives are better. So, please, stay behind your keyboard where you can't do any more damage.

johnso29

Congrats & enjoy it!

Carl Spackler

Easy. They're not doing it now because management wants to "save" any fare increases for items THEY believe in. Every time they contemplate a fare increase, they make a business case to themselves as to why the attempt should be made. There is no desire on their part to make pilot pay a worthwhile effort because they know the have ALPA/DALPA on their side. ALPA/DALPA does not want C2K restoration any more than management does. That's the sick part of this.

You are purposely stating falsehoods...and you know it. Delta STARTED a number of the fare hikes in the hopes the rest of the industry would participate. Sometimes the industry did, and sometimes the industry didn't. But at no time did the industry know WHY Delta wanted to institute the fare increase. The bottom line is that our management does NOT WANT to institute a fare increase to fund more pilot pay...and neither does our own union.

Is that because our competitors were sure that the fare increase wasn't being instituted to increase pilot pay?

Carl

contrails

I read in another forum JFK-TXL is going away. Bummer.

BlueMoon

That flight seemed to always be full.

I guess AF or KLM will do it via AMS or CDG?

Carl Spackler

OK alfa, let's stipulate this is all DALPA has been doing thus far. Just trying to educate us on what they know, and not trying to get us to see management's point of view. Can you at least agree, that the FREAKING EDUCATION PROCESS IS NOW OVER! Can we at least agree that ALL future communications from our union will be to educate us as to how far below we are from leading our industry for a pilot contract? And to educate us about how our airline can easily afford it? And to educate us on DALPA's plan to achieve this by December 2012? Can we at least agree to that?

Fine. Our knowledge base is plenty expanded now. Let's start communicating the plan for victory.

There will never NOT be uncertainty in the air. Never. This statement is classic lowering of expectations through generic unstated fear. Not to mention the insulting comment of "new information can be seen as threatening." You really must think you're the smartest guy in the room.

I believe that to be totally false. I believe lowering our expectations is precisely what our union is doing now. I look forward to DALPA beginning to prove me wrong.

Hilarious. Start proving me wrong.

Carl