Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-08-2011, 05:25 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
When it comes to moving sims, I can say for sure that they don't like getting hit by a car. 
Happened to a E120 sim I was using, it was the victim of a hit and run on it's move.
How long does it take to move a sim and get it back up, certified and actively training?
Happened to a E120 sim I was using, it was the victim of a hit and run on it's move. How long does it take to move a sim and get it back up, certified and actively training?
06-08-2011, 05:27 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by sailingfun
How many of the current NATCO instructors already commute? I have heard its more then half. Many come from Florida I am also told. I think they will find plenty who choose to switch to Atlanta.
As far as Bays many of the Bays in Atlanta have sims in place that are not used by Delta. There is also another sim facility Delta has used in the past for overflow at Greenbriar. We might even still have L1011 sims. I know we have two MD11 sims still installed. We use them for contract training. I think they are gone now but we kept several 727 sims for years after the aircraft were gone. They wont have a Bay problem and they will retain more instructors then you think.
Delta is a airline still mired in debt and other financial issues. They have to cut every cost if they intend to survive in the new world of airlines. When they get it sorted out CAL/UAL will be a powerhouse. SWA is going to adapt and do great in Atlanta. If there is money to be wasted I want it spent on the pilot contract not other items.
As far as Bays many of the Bays in Atlanta have sims in place that are not used by Delta. There is also another sim facility Delta has used in the past for overflow at Greenbriar. We might even still have L1011 sims. I know we have two MD11 sims still installed. We use them for contract training. I think they are gone now but we kept several 727 sims for years after the aircraft were gone. They wont have a Bay problem and they will retain more instructors then you think.
Delta is a airline still mired in debt and other financial issues. They have to cut every cost if they intend to survive in the new world of airlines. When they get it sorted out CAL/UAL will be a powerhouse. SWA is going to adapt and do great in Atlanta. If there is money to be wasted I want it spent on the pilot contract not other items.
Ed Bastian, I am so glad you post here too.
06-08-2011, 05:30 AM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by RockyBoy
So in a year after they have moved NATCO I wonder how much we will be paying to keep up the NATCO building and the old headquarters building because nobody will buy them. I don't think MSP is a hot spot when it comes to business so I'm thinking we'll pay to move all the stuff then still have to pay for the buildings. Maybe they already have them sold, but I doubt it.
Originally Posted by JungleBus
So a lot of info is coming out about a major accident in which the nuances of the A320/330 play a major role. Great time for DL to make a move that will likely deplete their instructor knowledge base on those airframes, eh? 
But as far as pilots, seems to me in the QF and NWA case it was basic airmanship that dealt with the ASI issues that would be no different than the 777s issues or any of the other airplanes.
Basically, if someone said that all of the instructors have this gouge from the line pilots that says touch that button, then that one, turn that knob 4 times left and 3 times right and hit the master caution light three times in two seconds and that solves all problems, then that's one thing.
But honestly some of my best instructors and even checkrides have been done with IPs with 0 time in type, sometimes 0 time at Delta or Part 121 too. My last checkride was a former Eastern pilot who I'm not sure ever flew here, commutes too, I'd love to be as sharp as he was at his young age.
I value what you learn from an SLI and I think we should have more of them or at least even non-SLI but simple line pilots early on in training to sit in the FTDs to assist pilots is a good thing. A mentoring program really. But training is to be a controlled environment that once mastered then the real world life on the line can be introduced and its far less of a difference these days between the schoolhouses and real world then when I started.
06-08-2011, 05:40 AM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by sailingfun
I believe JetBlue is defined as a Major airline. They operate 165 aircraft.
Originally Posted by sailingfun
If thats not a major what is?
06-08-2011, 05:45 AM
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Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Nosmo King
Re: NATCO Closing
I have to say I don't see how 8 bays is going to be enough.
A320 - 5 sims
A330 - 2 sims
B747 - 2 sims
B757 - 3 sims (I think)
and that is just the full flight sims, doesn't include FMS or PTTs or the sims used to train other airlines.
The real kicker is that management is STILL stuck on not offering hotel rooms and PS passes to/from the schoolhouse for instructors that don't live where the Training Center is located. If they did that they might not lose so much experience from the instructor corps.
I suppose the FAA will just look the other way and not consider it a safety issue during the "transition" if most of the instructors decide not to move to ATL and not to instruct (at leaston the 747 and Airbii)
It will be even more fun to watch the training backlog. Some sims don't react well to being moved.
I have to say I don't see how 8 bays is going to be enough.
A320 - 5 sims
A330 - 2 sims
B747 - 2 sims
B757 - 3 sims (I think)
and that is just the full flight sims, doesn't include FMS or PTTs or the sims used to train other airlines.
The real kicker is that management is STILL stuck on not offering hotel rooms and PS passes to/from the schoolhouse for instructors that don't live where the Training Center is located. If they did that they might not lose so much experience from the instructor corps.
I suppose the FAA will just look the other way and not consider it a safety issue during the "transition" if most of the instructors decide not to move to ATL and not to instruct (at leaston the 747 and Airbii)
It will be even more fun to watch the training backlog. Some sims don't react well to being moved.
Those sims are housed in 3 buildings (OC1 oldest, OC2 next to it and home of the 4th floor, OC3 across the street and new with newest sims) and "Delta Training Center" with the FTDs. As far as the CAPT type FTDs there are 29 rooms upstairs of which 16 or 17 could be made vacant.
The level 2 FTDs downstairs are a different matter. There are 3 spots down there where stuff could be moved out and new ones put in but there just rooms not really bays so it's not like other office and classrooms couldn't be reallocated.
Now I say all of this not to say "HEY, IT'S BETTER THAN NATCO DOWN HERE!" Because frankly I only heard great things about NATCO but there is room.
What I'd like to see is pilot new hire classroom and the OC1, 2 and Training Building refurbished and improved. Especially the new hire room, BB needs to be given a better more professional looking classroom to indoctrinate our new hires, just saying, he and they deserve it. Delta has a nice facility, just needs some love.
06-08-2011, 05:49 AM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by johnso29
How did you go about doing so? Mentioning it on various threads won't get it done.
Originally Posted by johnso29
Please use the reporting post function, or the little triangle with an exclamation point in it under your username.
06-08-2011, 06:00 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,154
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
We could move the MD11 sim up there and still rent it out to FedEx, maybe?
The A320/330 airspeed anomaly issues are maintenance/engineering to figure out... with the help of the NTSB and every OEM who touched it.
But as far as pilots, seems to me in the QF and NWA case it was basic airmanship that dealt with the ASI issues that would be no different than the 777s issues or any of the other airplanes.
Basically, if someone said that all of the instructors have this gouge from the line pilots that says touch that button, then that one, turn that knob 4 times left and 3 times right and hit the master caution light three times in two seconds and that solves all problems, then that's one thing.
But honestly some of my best instructors and even checkrides have been done with IPs with 0 time in type, sometimes 0 time at Delta or Part 121 too. My last checkride was a former Eastern pilot who I'm not sure ever flew here, commutes too, I'd love to be as sharp as he was at his young age.
I value what you learn from an SLI and I think we should have more of them or at least even non-SLI but simple line pilots early on in training to sit in the FTDs to assist pilots is a good thing. A mentoring program really. But training is to be a controlled environment that once mastered then the real world life on the line can be introduced and its far less of a difference these days between the schoolhouses and real world then when I started.
The A320/330 airspeed anomaly issues are maintenance/engineering to figure out... with the help of the NTSB and every OEM who touched it.
But as far as pilots, seems to me in the QF and NWA case it was basic airmanship that dealt with the ASI issues that would be no different than the 777s issues or any of the other airplanes.
Basically, if someone said that all of the instructors have this gouge from the line pilots that says touch that button, then that one, turn that knob 4 times left and 3 times right and hit the master caution light three times in two seconds and that solves all problems, then that's one thing.
But honestly some of my best instructors and even checkrides have been done with IPs with 0 time in type, sometimes 0 time at Delta or Part 121 too. My last checkride was a former Eastern pilot who I'm not sure ever flew here, commutes too, I'd love to be as sharp as he was at his young age.
I value what you learn from an SLI and I think we should have more of them or at least even non-SLI but simple line pilots early on in training to sit in the FTDs to assist pilots is a good thing. A mentoring program really. But training is to be a controlled environment that once mastered then the real world life on the line can be introduced and its far less of a difference these days between the schoolhouses and real world then when I started.
The biggest problem is not with airmanship, but with quickly and accurately identifying the problem. With the airspeed instruments lying to you, one of your major clues is providing bad information.
After demonstrating what a Charlie Foxtrot it would be, the instructor beamed us back to the beginning of the failure and briefed two simple items - Pitch and Power. 2.5 degrees Nose Up and 85-90% N1. It works in any airplane and almost any altitude, but we're apparently (as an industry) not teaching this very well.
It sounds simple and like something every pilot should already know, but it's very difficult to block out the airspeed information when your pilot brain is programmed to "airspeed is life." I came out of the sim with a completely new respect for what the Air France crew was confronted with.
That was a long way of saying our instructors DO provide a wealth of information and experience. Sometimes it's not what they teach, but how they teach that's important. I know I'll carry the pitch/power thing with me for the rest of my career and will draw on it immediately if I'm ever confronted with an instrument failure/confusion. I think he was a DGS guy too
06-08-2011, 06:05 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by dalad
AE is coming out very soon. MSP 330 base closing, ATL 330 and 320 base opening. From a very reliable 4th floor source.
Good times.
Maybe I will bid the 330. I doubt I can hold it though.
06-08-2011, 06:06 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Lil Bus A
Posts: 412
Originally Posted by scambo1
Ed Bastian, I am so glad you post here too.
06-08-2011, 06:07 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
Well that sure seemed to "get it done" when the DPA thread got moved. A couple of the usual ALPA apologists raised the point that it should be in Union Talk... and voila... instantly moved! Then yesterday, a brand new thread about DPA was almost immediately moved to Union Talk... while the ALPA/JetBlue thread remained untouched.
Noted. Hopefully that process will also hold true for any threads with "union talk" advocating ALPA.
Noted. Hopefully that process will also hold true for any threads with "union talk" advocating ALPA.
Yes, union talk should be in the "Union Talk" forum, and like threads will not be moved there as fast as I can get them there.
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