Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-09-2011, 09:06 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Can you put an approximate number on "ton" ? Figure all the pilots trying to get into Atlanta will bid the 88 to do it? A bid to the 88 would avoid the truly miserable MAO flying that is coming back to the 737's junior ranks.
Atlanta was decimated with the 767-400 move and other 767 cuts, forcing a lot of pilots down to the MD88 and off to New York. If the bid is a net positive for Atlanta, will the numbers be sufficient for those who wish change their domicile? Some of the junior NY crowd was hoping to come back too, but may be blocked by the anticipated MSP exodus / migration.
Why is ATL so incredibly popular? Is it really that much better a commute?
Atlanta was decimated with the 767-400 move and other 767 cuts, forcing a lot of pilots down to the MD88 and off to New York. If the bid is a net positive for Atlanta, will the numbers be sufficient for those who wish change their domicile? Some of the junior NY crowd was hoping to come back too, but may be blocked by the anticipated MSP exodus / migration.
Why is ATL so incredibly popular? Is it really that much better a commute?
Also, commutin's a *****. MEM and CVG have question marks about what categories will be there with a healthy assurance there will not be any WBs. NYC is NYC, as in its not BOS where so many NYC crews live and it's very expensive. You go there if you don't mind commuting.
That leaves super senior SEA, decimated by Alaska LAX, MSP and ATL. ATL has been super tight, takes a bit more than 3 years just to hold a line on the bottom, albeit kick ass, feeder. Half the 764s were sent to NYC and replaced with an aircraft not based here. It just increased the seniority pressure.
Atlanta has great areas here and there to live and this bizarre base housing thing going on. People want to be here if theyve got no place else they'd rather live. Too bad Western didn't own DEN, it's probably the only place my atlanta hometown wife would move too.
06-09-2011, 09:08 AM
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
"If" they close MSP 330, there will be a lot of pilot early out then displace down. Those poor guys live there, and I know their paid. On the right seat, a lot of them will upgrade. Most are late 80 hires. It is one senior piece of equipment in MSP. It will effect everyone if they just bid down.
MSP A330 is on average the most senior of the A330 bases. It would be interesting to see who would end up on the equipment if they all bid to ATL.
06-09-2011, 09:10 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,990
FTB: Good explanation. DTW is starting to look appealing as an alternative.
In other news, we have the oldest fleet of any mainline / legacy carrier:
The quote in parenthesis is not mine. Not that it is a bad thing.
As much as the senior pilots complain about the juniors complaining, at least we write in complete sentences and post pictures of girls. The ALPA board will be interesting if we get a A330A shoot out. However, my thought is that the weight increases may be a precursor to 12+ hour flying which means more A positions. Somehow it always seems to keep working out for the people it keeps working out for (which is a good thing).
In other news, we have the oldest fleet of any mainline / legacy carrier:
Originally Posted by Seeking Alpha
Delta (DAL)
Standouts in Delta's fleet are 117, 20-year-old MD-88s, and surprisingly, 39, 34-year old DC-9s (I'm blown away the firm hasn't parked these). The firm has 164, 757-200s that are about 18 years old, as well. The average age of Delta's fleet, which does include some regional jets (so the age comparison may not be completely apples-to-apples to peers presented in this article), is 15.1 years.
Standouts in Delta's fleet are 117, 20-year-old MD-88s, and surprisingly, 39, 34-year old DC-9s (I'm blown away the firm hasn't parked these). The firm has 164, 757-200s that are about 18 years old, as well. The average age of Delta's fleet, which does include some regional jets (so the age comparison may not be completely apples-to-apples to peers presented in this article), is 15.1 years.
Originally Posted by Nosmo King
MSP A330 is on average the most senior of the A330 bases. It would be interesting to see who would end up on the equipment if they all bid to ATL.
06-09-2011, 09:12 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Nosmo King
I fly with mostly over age 60 captains. as was mentioned in other posts they are "enjoying" wb international flying for the first time in their careers for several reasons. 1) 20 year fence created artificial seniority imbalances 2) When the fence came down, there were very few openings to be awarded due to pilots not retiring and recall rights with no expiration date 3) They were not the most senior Green Book guys and couldn't hold the very few openings that existed 4) Extension to age 65 allowed them to stay flying long enough to see retirements off the 747 and 330 and thus bid the recent openings
I ask every one of them why they chose to fly past 65 and none of them has mentioned finances. Its always the "this international stuff is great!" answer. I am getting kinda tired of sitting through multiple line checks on every trip/
I ask every one of them why they chose to fly past 65 and none of them has mentioned finances. Its always the "this international stuff is great!" answer. I am getting kinda tired of sitting through multiple line checks on every trip/
Nobody is saying, I'll retire and go fly a gulfstream anymore. And we also have folks caught up in the real estate disaster. I flew with an ER FO that got into flipping houses late in the game and had 4 or 5 houses he owned when the economy tanked and his divorce kicked in. Another ER CA was, recently, waitibg to finally hit the point he could declare bankruptcy thanks to condos or homes he owned in the Destin area.
0 incentive for a lot of folks.
06-09-2011, 09:19 AM
Doing Nothing
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,316
Hey FtB any advice for the ATL M88B plug? Was planning to move to Atlanta but maybe not so now. What are the chances you guys think that I could get booted? Number 497/497 is fun!
06-09-2011, 09:24 AM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
Met with a chief pilot today. AE comes out today. Airbuses will be in ATL. Also 50 have accepted early out, this AE taking senior equipment out of MSP will generate more early outs. Maddog here I come!
The MSP Training Center closing is apparently tied to high oil prices and drilling down for savings.
The MSP Training Center closing is apparently tied to high oil prices and drilling down for savings.
06-09-2011, 09:25 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,990
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
The D word is being bandied about in various corners of the economy right now thus there is absolutely no incentive to retire early.
I expect the opposite. If anyone remembers the really ugly 70's we had high unemployment, interest rates got into the 17% range and lines at the fuel pumps. In their garages and college dorm rooms brilliant men created new business which are household words today.
The Fed is in a corner. It's own exposure to real estate results in a situation where it could be wiped out on the assets it holds. It can not stand deflation. The only way out is inflation.
Inflation will lower ours (and everyone else's) pay in real terms. As for retirement, it is a net neutral depending on their ability to manage and employ the assets they have. Some of the f-NWA pilots have large enough portfolios to make full time management a worth while effort.
06-09-2011, 09:26 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 354
Wow..this could get fun/interesting!!
06-09-2011, 09:29 AM
Can't abide NAI
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The Press comes around to a more reasonable view:
Originally Posted by The Street.com
Delta Flies Into Patriotic Morass
Ted Reed
06/09/11 - 10:18 AM EDT
ATLANTA (TheStreet) -- Delta(DAL) flew into a black hole of negative publicity this week when an employee asked uniformed servicemen to pay bag fees.
Talk about stepping in it. Delta inaccurately appeared to be unpatriotic. Delta also saw a negative YouTube post that became national news.
Also, before Delta had a chance Wednesday to change its policy to allow U.S. military traveling on orders in economy class to check four bags free, competitors rushed to point out that their policies are far more liberal than Delta's. Earlier in the day, American Airlines(AMR) said it would go to five free bags for military, traveling on orders or for pleasure.
This incident began when a group of U.S. soldiers returning home from Afghanistan was charged $200 each for extra bags on a connecting flight from Baltimore to Atlanta. On YouTube, the soldiers said they were authorized to check as many as four bags free of charge. But they were nevertheless charged for their fourth bags, resulting in a $2,800 charge for the group. This video went "viral."
In situations such as this, it seems senseless to attempt to consider reality. First of all, eventually, the $200 bag fees are going to come from the bloated Pentagon budget, because the Pentagon contracted with Delta to fly troops home. It is not the responsibility of individual soldiers to pay bag fees when they fly home from combat. We all know that.
Many people cannot wait for an opportunity to bust an airline or to post a comment somewhere -- anywhere -- to say how patriotic they are. Of course, this is totally disingenuous.
Additionally, it can be particularly painful for airlines, which tend to employ a lot of veterans, particularly among their pilots. Airlines cooperate in myriad ways with the military, including supplying airplanes when needed and allowing soldiers to board first, after which it is not unusual for cabin crews to announce the soldiers' presence and applaud their service.
Secondly, and we shudder to mention this, but these soldiers were checking quite a large number of bags -- especially with 14 soldiers involved.
People are always quick to criticize airlines. People don't like bag fees -- or fees for anything. While no company or government or powerful interest group should be immune from criticism, we must strive to evaluate it.
We are not talking about our soldiers here. But for all of us of us who feel compelled to react, no matter what happens to be posted online, we should never check our brains along with our baggage.
-- Written by Ted Reed in Charlotte, N.C.
Ted Reed
06/09/11 - 10:18 AM EDT
ATLANTA (TheStreet) -- Delta(DAL) flew into a black hole of negative publicity this week when an employee asked uniformed servicemen to pay bag fees.
Talk about stepping in it. Delta inaccurately appeared to be unpatriotic. Delta also saw a negative YouTube post that became national news.
Also, before Delta had a chance Wednesday to change its policy to allow U.S. military traveling on orders in economy class to check four bags free, competitors rushed to point out that their policies are far more liberal than Delta's. Earlier in the day, American Airlines(AMR) said it would go to five free bags for military, traveling on orders or for pleasure.
This incident began when a group of U.S. soldiers returning home from Afghanistan was charged $200 each for extra bags on a connecting flight from Baltimore to Atlanta. On YouTube, the soldiers said they were authorized to check as many as four bags free of charge. But they were nevertheless charged for their fourth bags, resulting in a $2,800 charge for the group. This video went "viral."
In situations such as this, it seems senseless to attempt to consider reality. First of all, eventually, the $200 bag fees are going to come from the bloated Pentagon budget, because the Pentagon contracted with Delta to fly troops home. It is not the responsibility of individual soldiers to pay bag fees when they fly home from combat. We all know that.
Many people cannot wait for an opportunity to bust an airline or to post a comment somewhere -- anywhere -- to say how patriotic they are. Of course, this is totally disingenuous.
Additionally, it can be particularly painful for airlines, which tend to employ a lot of veterans, particularly among their pilots. Airlines cooperate in myriad ways with the military, including supplying airplanes when needed and allowing soldiers to board first, after which it is not unusual for cabin crews to announce the soldiers' presence and applaud their service.
Secondly, and we shudder to mention this, but these soldiers were checking quite a large number of bags -- especially with 14 soldiers involved.
People are always quick to criticize airlines. People don't like bag fees -- or fees for anything. While no company or government or powerful interest group should be immune from criticism, we must strive to evaluate it.
We are not talking about our soldiers here. But for all of us of us who feel compelled to react, no matter what happens to be posted online, we should never check our brains along with our baggage.
-- Written by Ted Reed in Charlotte, N.C.
06-09-2011, 09:30 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Originally Posted by Nosmo King
Wouldn't we all be surprised if they followed the airplane to ATL and commuted because they like the lifestyle and could possibly do one commute a month?
MSP A330 is on average the most senior of the A330 bases. It would be interesting to see who would end up on the equipment if they all bid to ATL.
MSP A330 is on average the most senior of the A330 bases. It would be interesting to see who would end up on the equipment if they all bid to ATL.
There haven't been significant post-merger opportunities to move into ATL. I assume a good % of the A330 pilots commute... so I assume a high percentage will follow the aircraft. It's especially true for aircraft near the top of the pay scale. The 320... I'm not so sure.
For the foreseeable future, I think the trend is for the coasts to go more and more senior, and the middle of the country more and more junior.
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