Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-30-2011 | 01:06 PM
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From: Urban chicken rancher.
Agreed. Most of the guys who left the USAF when I was leaving went to SWA. All had very impressive military flying credentials AND they got their 73 type. In fact, the former Presidential Pilot for Air Force One went to SWA.
06-30-2011 | 01:19 PM
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From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
I am not sure where some of the wild numbers being put out here come from. To match SWA in pay if you compare their 737 rate to ours at the amendable date of our contract will require about a 15 percent raise in direct pay rates. If you add the value of the DC contribution to the mix then the raise would only have to be around 9 percent. If we go to the company demanding SW compensation the company might just say no problem. Here is their total block hour cost per pilot. We will be glad to pay you that!!!
Hint, Their total block hour cost verses ours is not that far apart. We probably don't want to go there.
Hint, Their total block hour cost verses ours is not that far apart. We probably don't want to go there.
The bottom line is how your W-2 ends up. THAT is what determines your standard of living on a day to day basis. The average SWA pilot can afford a much nicer home than the average Delta pilot. He can afford to send his kids to better schools. He has a decent retirement plan... especially considering that he didn't have to start from scratch halfway through his career like a lot of us did. Those are the things that matter. The rest is just misdirection BS. Why would you do that?
06-30-2011 | 01:44 PM
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From: Space Shuttle PIC
I am not sure where some of the wild numbers being put out here come from. To match SWA in pay if you compare their 737 rate to ours at the amendable date of our contract will require about a 15 percent raise in direct pay rates. If you add the value of the DC contribution to the mix then the raise would only have to be around 9 percent. If we go to the company demanding SW compensation the company might just say no problem. Here is their total block hour cost per pilot. We will be glad to pay you that!!!
Hint, Their total block hour cost verses ours is not that far apart. We probably don't want to go there.
Hint, Their total block hour cost verses ours is not that far apart. We probably don't want to go there.
Don't manage our expectations. We all know what SWA has, they gave the Airtran pilots a welcome letter stating it. SWA +1 for the 737s. And then go up from there. We made $950 million last year on bag fees. Nuff said, and the DPA card is going out today. Looks like DALPA needs to be scared into listening to their constituents. That Dalpa opener had better be good.
06-30-2011 | 01:52 PM
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From: B-7ER JFK
I understand.
I'm just trying to figure out how to frame an argument and the fact SWA bought out AAI and now AAI will be at SWA rates is useful.
Not to mention SWA, damnit somewhere on youtube and I can't find it to post it, made a commercial ridiculing RJ's.
Great pay and great scope and an airline that see's ticket pricing like a legacy is what is replacing AirTran here in Mecca. That's a great thing.
Just trying to leverage it so that the 88 = SWA pay and the tide lifts all boats. In one tiny way it's a framing argument for our own group.
Just ask a pilot, 30, 40, 70% pay raise? They know better. Like sailing mentioned, the opener will be 3%. They know 30-70% is unaffordable, C2K rates plus inflation won't happen, we'd lose the PR battle and go on strike and be broken... but say SWA+, all for it.
Equal pay for equal work. Humorous sexual context aside, there is something to be said for equal pay for equal work. You don't have to like it, just say it.
I'm just trying to figure out how to frame an argument and the fact SWA bought out AAI and now AAI will be at SWA rates is useful.
Not to mention SWA, damnit somewhere on youtube and I can't find it to post it, made a commercial ridiculing RJ's.
Great pay and great scope and an airline that see's ticket pricing like a legacy is what is replacing AirTran here in Mecca. That's a great thing.
Just trying to leverage it so that the 88 = SWA pay and the tide lifts all boats. In one tiny way it's a framing argument for our own group.
Just ask a pilot, 30, 40, 70% pay raise? They know better. Like sailing mentioned, the opener will be 3%. They know 30-70% is unaffordable, C2K rates plus inflation won't happen, we'd lose the PR battle and go on strike and be broken... but say SWA+, all for it.
Equal pay for equal work. Humorous sexual context aside, there is something to be said for equal pay for equal work. You don't have to like it, just say it.
FV,
I usually agree with you, but I don't agree with your point on this one at all. Because of their pay being so much higher, SWA is getting the top tier pilot candidates these days. They've already passed "Riddle and military training" AND a 73 type.
I agree we should be paid more than they are, but you're looking at a minimum of +50% just to match them. LM laughed at a sim instructor for suggesting we would get even +30%. There are others here who would argue the same thing. (Although those folks have become curiously quiet on the subject since SWA released their ValuTran welcome packet and the cat got out of the bag about how much more they're making than we are.)
I usually agree with you, but I don't agree with your point on this one at all. Because of their pay being so much higher, SWA is getting the top tier pilot candidates these days. They've already passed "Riddle and military training" AND a 73 type.
I agree we should be paid more than they are, but you're looking at a minimum of +50% just to match them. LM laughed at a sim instructor for suggesting we would get even +30%. There are others here who would argue the same thing. (Although those folks have become curiously quiet on the subject since SWA released their ValuTran welcome packet and the cat got out of the bag about how much more they're making than we are.)
......Don't manage our expectations. We all know what SWA has, they gave the Airtran pilots a welcome letter stating it. SWA +1 for the 737s. .......We made $950 million last year on bag fees. Nuff said, and the DPA card is going out today. Looks like DALPA needs to be scared into listening to their constituents. That Dalpa opener had better be good.
06-30-2011 | 01:56 PM
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From: window seat
Wrong. Not even close.
I would just rather have the extra 36 days a year and 108 extra pay hours a year than the current illusion of "only 6 short calls" that can and are placed in such a way as to burn commuters in most categories very easily.
The current system is almost like unlimited short calls because on day 1 you will get a short call (if you don't get a trip) most of the time (except the very few perpetually fat staffed categories). Even then, only a few of the non commuters in those few perpetually fat staffed categories give a dang if they get long call in the middle of a reserve stint when day one was short call anyway (and often quite early at that).
When scheduling can give you an early SC on day one just to get you there, often the day before, and then work on it as they see fit from then on, its no better than unlimited short calls and as an added bonus, we get 36 fewer days a year off and 108 hours less pay.
I would just rather have the extra 36 days a year and 108 extra pay hours a year than the current illusion of "only 6 short calls" that can and are placed in such a way as to burn commuters in most categories very easily.
The current system is almost like unlimited short calls because on day 1 you will get a short call (if you don't get a trip) most of the time (except the very few perpetually fat staffed categories). Even then, only a few of the non commuters in those few perpetually fat staffed categories give a dang if they get long call in the middle of a reserve stint when day one was short call anyway (and often quite early at that).
When scheduling can give you an early SC on day one just to get you there, often the day before, and then work on it as they see fit from then on, its no better than unlimited short calls and as an added bonus, we get 36 fewer days a year off and 108 hours less pay.
06-30-2011 | 02:10 PM
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From: B-7ER JFK
Wrong. Not even close.
I would just rather have the extra 36 days a year and 108 extra pay hours a year than the current illusion of "only 6 short calls" that can and are placed in such a way as to burn commuters in most categories very easily.
The current system is almost like unlimited short calls because on day 1 you will get a short call (if you don't get a trip) most of the time (except the very few perpetually fat staffed categories). Even then, only a few of the non commuters in those few perpetually fat staffed categories give a dang if they get long call in the middle of a reserve stint when day one was short call anyway (and often quite early at that).
When scheduling can give you an early SC on day one just to get you there, often the day before, and then work on it as they see fit from then on, its no better than unlimited short calls and as an added bonus, we get 36 fewer days a year off and 108 hours less pay.
I would just rather have the extra 36 days a year and 108 extra pay hours a year than the current illusion of "only 6 short calls" that can and are placed in such a way as to burn commuters in most categories very easily.
The current system is almost like unlimited short calls because on day 1 you will get a short call (if you don't get a trip) most of the time (except the very few perpetually fat staffed categories). Even then, only a few of the non commuters in those few perpetually fat staffed categories give a dang if they get long call in the middle of a reserve stint when day one was short call anyway (and often quite early at that).
When scheduling can give you an early SC on day one just to get you there, often the day before, and then work on it as they see fit from then on, its no better than unlimited short calls and as an added bonus, we get 36 fewer days a year off and 108 hours less pay.
06-30-2011 | 02:16 PM
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Your Achilles heel is showing ... It's your ego and ignorance about the competition.
06-30-2011 | 02:22 PM
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I am not sure where some of the wild numbers being put out here come from. To match SWA in pay if you compare their 737 rate to ours at the amendable date of our contract will require about a 15 percent raise in direct pay rates. If you add the value of the DC contribution to the mix then the raise would only have to be around 9 percent. If we go to the company demanding SW compensation the company might just say no problem. Here is their total block hour cost per pilot. We will be glad to pay you that!!!
Hint, Their total block hour cost verses ours is not that far apart. We probably don't want to go there.
Hint, Their total block hour cost verses ours is not that far apart. We probably don't want to go there.
06-30-2011 | 02:27 PM
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Not sure if that really translates to anything. Why should it matter if xxx thunderbird/blue angel/ NASA shuttle pilots went to X company vs. Y company?
06-30-2011 | 02:40 PM
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From: B-7ER JFK
Too funny, you obviously don't know me very well..... But that's OK, just join the number of guys on here that is doing their best to lower our standards. I just happen to look at the bigger picture.
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