Air National Guard.

Avoid active mil, too long a commitment now (wings +10), and you might end up flying a desktop computer.

Any 4 year college and go to the local flight school. Least expensive route by far, but doesn't offer the ability to create connections in the industry (See FTB's roomate), that can translate to 2-5 years of a headstart.

a 4 Year university with a flight program (Purdue, Auburn, Ariz. Stat., Ohio State., a few smaller state schools (U Minn. St. Cloud, Mid. Tenn. St. Univ., etc.) Positives are lots of accredited internship oppotunities, many industry connections, reasonable prices(state schools), and also the option to change majors into many other areas and not have to change schools, lots of extracurricular options, and a more traditional "college experience".

Private 4 year schools (ERAU?), really, really expensive, but you do get the internship opportunities and industry connections that are very helpful. If the person decides to change majors to something outside aviation, transferring is pretty much the only option.

Any 4 year anywhere and then go to a pilot academy, AllATP's, knock out all the ratings in 9 months right after graduation (can be kinda pricey, but effective in the amount of time spent) get into flight instructing and onto a 121 job soon thereafter.

Rumor. Speculation.

No "ALPA dude" will spout numbers (well anyone in a capacity to have a direct effect on neg. (LEC/MEC/NC).

Once again.....DALPA has not polled the pilots yet........It is coming this summer/early fall.....

Ask anyone who was around for the C2K contract survey when it came out!!!!!

There is almost 18 months until the Amendable date, and there are 3 Legacy airlines who are already in talks. When(if) one of those 3 inks a new deal that is above the current SWA deal, all of the people who wanted DALPA to make a public campaign of "We want SWA" will look like fools for setting the bar too low. Now you go into negotiations and have hurt the leverage of the NC when the Company goes "You just said for a year that you wanted SWA, here it is...." when AA or UCAL may have exceeded that by 5-10-15%!!!!!

When are the next elections? Prior to the contract or opener? If not, and the opener is weak, then we have a year or two before the contract is done, which is enough time to vote in DPA. That could delay a contract, but it will more reflect what the group wants.

This kind of propaganda reminds me of being a new hire at DAL when crew scheduling comes in and shows you how the one captain is successfully doing "Rolling Thunder". They spun it in such a way that I could expect that as the norm... as a new hire on reserve.

However, I have many good friends at SWA and they certainly make more than I do with more days off.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that while their memo to the tranny guys looks like pure propaganda the fact still remains that my buddies at SWA still make more (way more on reserve) and enjoy more days off.

Actually, I think under normal circumstances the union and management should work together. SWA has a management that values and respects its employees. And they back that up with the way they TREAT their employees. That's the way business is supposed to work! From what I've seen, I think SWAPA's relationship with management is appropriate. DALPA's relationship with DAL management is a completely different story, IMO.

But the bottom line on the ValuTran welcome publication (as it relates to our discussion here) is this: Is it factual or not? Does the average SWA Captain make over $230k or not? Does the average SWA F/O make over $140k or not? Do they average working 12 days per month? If this data is true, then they are being paid WAY more than Delta's domestic narrowbody pilots... and working LESS days! Any attempt to minimize the importance and relevance of that to us, is just spin and an attempt to lower our expectations.

I don't think you've proven anything with your "anecdotal trip trade" example. And maybe I am shooting too low. I'd like for our MD-88/90 Captains to make more than $230,000 per year. Heck, I'd like to make $1 million per year. But we have to deal in reality. To get our MD-88/90 Captains to $230k would require about a 57% increase to our current pay rates. If you want to shoot for more than that, I'm all for it. But good luck with that with ALPA as our bargaining agent. I'll be surprised if their opening position will be even a 30% pay increase.

I think you and I must have been in the same new hire class! I too agree, that no matter how you spin it the facts still remains my friends at SWA are making more and working less days than I am.
I also agree with much of what Alfa/Sailing et all are saying. I think many on here aren't willing to be a little more open minded. I guess it's hard when you've given, had taken, and been burned one too many times!
Good Luck to us all on a prosperous career.
Happy 235th Birthday America!!

Well.......I guess those in the know blew me and my question off.

<sigh>

Thanks DALPA dudes

Ferd;

The official alpa answer is: Unequivocally YES, I mean err no, well lets just go with maybe.:D

You are again cherry picking. We don't have 3 day trips of similar time away from base that pay that much less then SWA. Your talking 3 day trips with 2 duty periods leaving very late on day one and back very early on day 3. SWAPA has dog rotations also.
What you once again forget is that there are entire other sections of the contract besides compensation. The SWAPA contract allows SW to run a very lean operation. In 2009 where the were somewhat overstaffed they had 10.5 pilots per aircraft. Delta had over 14. Even looking at just domestic we were staffed at 12.5.
If we can get the entire SW contract I guess it would make you happy. The 2000 plus Delta pilots who get sent to the street wont however be real happy or the 1000 Captains who downgrade.
You can cherry pick anything and show a good result. I had 186 hours pay in Dec and worked 14 days. Thats a average of over 13 hours a day. That does not however make it the reality of a normal month for a Delta pilot.

Why do I always get uncommutable short call? I can get to base by 7:30 in the morning. Is it too much to ask for a 5:30 or later short call. My last 4 have now been 5am or 3am.