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Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1017407)
Carl, The info you have is from a welcome to SW package for the Airtran pilots. Its intent was to show the incredibly deal they are getting and why they should agree to what SW wants in the SLI.
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1017407)
If you think Swapa is not above a bit of spin then we will disagree on that point.
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1017407)
Most of the info is basically accurate however just glancing at the numbers suggests again some spin!
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1017407)
1260 trips is the average per pilot? Not likely since you really can't fly more then that without bumping up against FAR's. Under their system 1260 trips equates to 1090 hours. I do understand that some legs go under block and you can fly more but I simply don't think that its the average.
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1017407)
In the end the total block hour costs between SWA and Delta will be used by both sides in the negotiations. There is nothing secret there. Its not however a number that will show SW way above us.
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1017407)
If we want a number to justify the biggest raises possible focusing on the SW contract would simply not be wise. A much better position to take would be revenue generation per pilot. At Delta we generate significantly more revenue per pilot then at SW. Those numbers are also easy to find.
Thems are the facts ace. Carl |
Happy Independence Day from Zuma Beach brothers!
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Originally Posted by Jughead
(Post 1017442)
Shack. For every $200k f/o and $300k capt, I'll show you 50 who aren't even close to SWA average (myself included). I'm already dreading the forthcoming spin. 1.Scope 2. Pay restoration, period. One man, one vote.
Carl |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1017484)
Carl, Go back and read further in their welcome package. They state there that most lines are 17 days off which means 13 or 14 days working. The other number includes vacation. Not much different then the average Delta line although we have a wider variation. Unless of course you don't trust SWAPA's word.
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1017484)
Someone else posted they average 7 hours a day!
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1017484)
Yet the SWAPA publication states they average less then 9 hours a day on duty. Lets see, report and release 1:30 and then in less then 7:30 minutes remaining averaging 7 hours flight time. Even with their quick turns not likely.
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1017484)
There is a sample 3 day trip posted on the welcome package. I think it shows 16:50 total time. A friend there says he thinks they run about 17 average on a 3 day so sounds about right, not quite the 21 posted here.
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1017484)
One other point. SWA used to run a linear system. Very easy to build excellent rotations. As they morph into a hub and spoke system I am told they have seen a degradation in rotation quality. Still the fact they operate only one aircraft type gives them the ability to build much better overall trips then a airline operating just about every aircraft ever built.
Dude, you need a vacation. I would suggest Stockholm, but it appears you're already a resident. Carl |
Originally Posted by mmaviator
(Post 1017496)
I was on a Delta flight and found this was left behind..........
http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripert...sa-miller2.jpg Not sure what attachment that is on the Ipod??? Carl |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1017513)
That metric is better because there is a substantial difference between us and Southwest in that regard. Revenue also provides the means to pay pilots. I have seen the total block hour numbers between Delta and SW. If you compare the 737 we would only need a 8 to 10 percent raise in pay and status quo on everything else to be equal to SW.
10% increase in pay and status quo? Glad you only have one vote. Carl |
Originally Posted by buzzpat
(Post 1017552)
Huh, what? No, not exactly. I'm on the 73 and I have buddies hired at SWA after me, and that is complete and total BS. After their second year, I start to suck big time, even comparing the differences in work rules and rotation design. What sort of math are you using? We've crunched the numbers and its, on average, 35-40%. C'mon Sailing! You're losing whatever credibility you once had. If you represent what ALPA will be selling, I'm not buying.
Carl |
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1017570)
Much has been made about the Southwest welcome packet and the numbers they post about how well they are doing. I believe SWAPA is doing a good job representing their pilot and I am not trying to bash them, but I think they might have played a little fast and loose with their numbers in their opening presentation.
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1017570)
For instance much has been made about a SWA Captain making $230,000 per year and working 12 days a month. Let’s examine those numbers. Their current pay (from the packet) is maxed out at $186.06 per TRIP which means their HOURLY pay rate is about $212. Divide $212 into $230,000 and you get 1085 hours or 90.5 hours per month. If they only worked 12 days that means they got paid 7.5 hours per day, yet they say their average duty day is 9 hours. In fact, that assumes that all of their Captains are at the maximum pay, if you take into account pilots that are not yet at their maximum then the numbers get worse. I am sorry but that is just not possible. My guess is that they are playing a few games here.
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1017570)
For instance, they say that the majority of regular lines have 17 days off per month. They say their reserves have 15/16 days off per month. Yet their entire pilot group averages 18 days off per month. That doesn’t add up. What they are doing is taking into account reserve days not worked, sick days, vacation days, and other days where you were paid but didn’t actually fly; not dishonest, but if you are going to compare then you have to compare apples to apples.
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1017570)
For instance Delta pilots average about 28-29 days of vacation per year that equates to about 16 days of pay. They also average around 15 days of sick time per year. If you then add in reserve days not worked, time spent awaiting OE, and many other items, you can quickly get to Delta pilots averaging 12 days or less “worked” per month. I don’t want to get into definitional games here, but remember, the SWAPA message is to convince the AirTran pilots to accept a highly unbalanced seniority integration so they are the ones playing a few games.
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1017570)
My point is that people take this pamphlet, which is meant to sway the AirTran pilots’ view of this merger, and try to make it like it’s a true contract comparison. It is not. If ALPA tried to play these types of semantic games with you, you would cry foul.
Carl |
Originally Posted by Flamer
(Post 1017588)
If ALPAs opener is what I think it will be, I bet that 50% will happen very quick. If ALPAs defense is "these guys won't vote us out during negotiations" they are in for a surprise.
A weak opener will hurt us for many years, but it may be the price we'll have to pay to rid ourselves of this bloated self-serving bureaucracy called ALPA. Carl |
Originally Posted by BigGuns
(Post 1017589)
This is correct! I have personally seen my buddies trips. They normally have 3 day trips that pay 24 tfp that equals about 20.5 hours at Delta. Is that the norm here?
I have seen my friends W-2s, they got hired with in months of me at Delta and make $45k more than me and $30k more than my buds on the 7ER... That's fact. Propaganda or not the union shouldn't be trying to down play it, they should be using it as a rally cry! Carl |
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