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Hey, see I was right, when you merge two large equals you should rebrand.
You can argue to the employees that you will take an a le cart approach to the best of both companies instead of making it feel as if someone was bought out and must now acquiesce. Make it a bunch of mumbo jumbo that's hard to decipher but easy to take ownership of. We needed something that rhymed with Skyteam though. |
Originally Posted by shiznit
(Post 1021993)
As I've said in other places, you have to prove to me that "DPA supporters" can change the smaller things first, and that will give me confidence to trust that the aims and methods of a "DPA" can and will be successful in the larger. So far its just been talk and complain, "DALPA su*ks, our way is better."
DPA needs to show me that they will TRY to fix the problems they see at the local level, if they can't modify and fix the current policy manual, how on God's green earth are they going to write one from scratch. Even if the efforts are rebuffed, you've now created a "body of work" that you can use to SPECIFICALLY show how a "DPA" would function and the structure that would be employed! That would give real and concrete examples that the "silent majority" could use to compare one system over the other. Without that, its all just bluster. If DPA can't even muster the effort, organization and resolve to fix small things now; they will not be able to "rebuild" a large labor union from the ground up. Hell, right now ALPA could come out with a mission statement on scope and pay, with the aim of returning them to their proper place. They choose not to. Instead they fill their magazine with shameless self promotion referencing victories of laser light reductions and crew pass year 7 "we are getting closer" announcements. Yes, these are important causes but what is most troubling is that which is not discussed. To those pilots at mainline carriers this should register as a multiple alarm fire. |
Originally Posted by shiznit
(Post 1021993)
As I've said in other places, you have to prove to me that "DPA supporters" can change the smaller things first, and that will give me confidence to trust that the aims and methods of a "DPA" can and will be successful in the larger. So far its just been talk and complain, "DALPA su*ks, our way is better."
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Originally Posted by shiznit
(Post 1021993)
As I've said in other places, you have to prove to me that "DPA supporters" can change the smaller things first, and that will give me confidence to trust that the aims and methods of a "DPA" can and will be successful in the larger. So far its just been talk and complain, "DALPA su*ks, our way is better."
I see big problems with ALPA... notably these: 1) Lack of objective. This MEC (and the one before it) absolutely refuses to state restoration as an objective. Why? And how are they going to achieve restoration if it's not even their objective? This is so out of touch with the vast majority of all the pilots I've ever known, worked with, and run across that it's just amazing. "Bottom up" my @ss! This MEC is about as "top down" as anything I've ever seen. 2) Conflict of interest at National. Yes, our MEC gets to make the final call as to whether or not to put a TA out there for a vote. And we as a pilot group get to vote it up or down. But you know as well as I do that there will be a full court press sales pitch to get us to vote in favor of any TA brought to us. And where do you think our MEC is getting most of its research and advice from? ALPA National. And ALPA National has responsibility to protect the jobs of ALL its members, which includes a whole bunch of regional pilots who are currently doing a whole bunch of flying that was previously done by Delta pilots. This is a no brainer... despite all the rationalization we get on it from DALPA. So, no, I can't prove to you that DPA can do any better. I don't know for a fact that they will either. I like what I see with their proposed structure and their philosophy. But that's all I have to go on. For me, it really comes down to this: If I'm riding a horse that I know for sure is going to take me off a cliff, and I have an opportunity to change horses (even if I don't really know exactly where the other horse is going), well I'm going to change horses rather than die a certain death. Not a perfect analogy, but that's pretty much the way I see it. |
http://www.flyasa.com/media/brand/
Best Sure Jet jokes from their own thread: Radio Call ... Sewer Jet Theme song ... YouTube - ‪Sure Deodorant commercial‬‏ That 23 year old Asian chick skipper is HOT! What do you think of the line "as fuel prices rise, businesses have cut back" as a Delta MD88 glides across the screen :( |
Originally Posted by Jack Bauer
(Post 1022056)
You keep missing the point. Many of the pilot brotherhood have tried what you suggest. The infrastructure we call ALPA has been given opportunities to right the ship many times and yet they continue down a path the top leadership chooses contrary to what Delta Airline pilots are asking for. Truly, that ship has sailed. Hell, right now ALPA could come out with a mission statement on scope and pay, with the aim of returning them to their proper place. They choose not to. Instead they fill their magazine with shameless self promotion referencing victories of laser light reductions and crew pass year 7 "we are getting closer" announcements. Yes, these are important causes but what is most troubling is that which is not discussed. To those pilots at mainline carriers this should register as a multiple alarm fire.
I know that in 2000-01, UALALPA and DALPA produced the richest contracts in us airline history. I know that SWAPA has NEVER produced contractual gains that propelled them to "lead the industry", and that APA has done pretty well but never really "led" the pack (well except maybe with the B-scale). I know that NPA (Airtran), and FPA (FedEx) were independent and decided to JOIN ALPA instead of stay independent because it was a better way to make gains in their careers. I know that USAPA has produced NOTHING tangible for their pilots in more than two years of "independent operation", and they have a multi-million budget deficit that threatens the existence of the organization. This is what I know. I do not know of any accomplishments of DPA. |
Originally Posted by shiznit
(Post 1022049)
Just my opinion, but I would say that they are achieving small gains outside of Section 6, so that we are better able to deliver the larger final goal because "some" of the things have already been taken off the table that were going to be part of the "overwhelming" list of things that an NMB appointed mediator would find to be "overreaching" and end up putting us on ice. Less things that need to be on the table in Section 6 lends to a higher likelihood of us having leverage. The MEC is gaining outside of Section 6.
I applaud the ability of my elected reps to empower the Neg. Comm. to make improvements to our PWA even though we are in a "A contract is a contract" type of time. I think it bodes well for their abilities when the full Section 6 gets underway. |
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
(Post 1022061)
How can they "prove" anything
When/if it passes (provided DPA supports actually get up and DO something), it will end up at the MEC meeting from every direction in the same manner. When/if it fails, well then it probably wasn't a good idea or there really isn't enough action behind the "talk" of the DPA faction.
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
(Post 1022061)
They are not in a position to prove anything because they are not in a position right now to make any changes that affect us. All any of us can do is assess whether we think ALPA or DPA is best suited to accomplish restoration and put our careers back on track. It's not by any means a perfect science or sure thing either way.
I see big problems with ALPA... notably these: 1) Lack of objective. This MEC (and the one before it) absolutely refuses to state restoration as an objective. Why? And how are they going to achieve restoration if it's not even their objective? This is so out of touch with the vast majority of all the pilots I've ever known, worked with, and run across that it's just amazing. "Bottom up" my @ss! This MEC is about as "top down" as anything I've ever seen.
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
(Post 1022061)
2) Conflict of interest at National. Yes, our MEC gets to make the final call as to whether or not to put a TA out there for a vote. And we as a pilot group get to vote it up or down. But you know as well as I do that there will be a full court press sales pitch to get us to vote in favor of any TA brought to us. And where do you think our MEC is getting most of its research and advice from? ALPA National. And ALPA National has responsibility to protect the jobs of ALL its members, which includes a whole bunch of regional pilots who are currently doing a whole bunch of flying that was previously done by Delta pilots. This is a no brainer... despite all the rationalization we get on it from DALPA.
Again, you can't convince me that your ideas and future "Policy Manual" to run the union for Delta Pilots will be effective if you don't try to implement some of those ideas NOW!! (and it will make your supposed transition that much easier.) (and if the ideas have merit I have no doubt that the other group A carriers would get behind policy changes.)
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
(Post 1022061)
So, no, I can't prove to you that DPA can do any better. I don't know for a fact that they will either. I like what I see with their proposed structure and their philosophy. But that's all I have to go on. For me, it really comes down to this: If I'm riding a horse that I know for sure is going to take me off a cliff, and I have an opportunity to change horses (even if I don't really know exactly where the other horse is going), well I'm going to change horses rather than die a certain death. Not a perfect analogy, but that's pretty much the way I see it.
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THIS IS GREAT! (dealing with the new 450+ airplane regional we pay) A MUST SEE!
YouTube - SureJet commercial |
Originally Posted by shiznit
(Post 1022069)
I would love to see fact based evidence of this, for all pilots to see.
I know that in 2000-01, UALALPA and DALPA produced the richest contracts in us airline history. The current ALPA has evolved into a bloated mess who may well be bankrupted soon. http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...-dfr-suit.html I have read both Flying the Line 1 and 2. Contrasting the ALPA of today to the organization Dave Behncke lead, they are not in the same category. One pushed for its constituents, raising the bar, the other owns a history of missed opportunities and top down leadership far removed from the wants and desires of its constituents. A self serving organization. Even the ALPA of "contract 2000" had a different approach/philosophy from the ALPA we have a decade later. Apples and oranges my friend. |
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