Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Whidbey (Post 1026872)

Is it your position that AA management would have been happy to come to the table with a reasonable offer four years ago had APA been more "proactively engaged"? Your statment seems to imply that the negotiating methods of the APA are wholly are largely to blame for the lack of progress at AA.

I don't think it's valid to point to the slow pace in the AA negotiations as a failure of their union. The delay tactic given to management by the RLA was going to be used as long as it worked to the advantage of AA management, adversarial relationship or no.

Nope, not my position at all. Let's look at the results for comparison:

July 21, 2006

APA sends Section 6 notice.

APA: 52% raise, improvements to all sections of the contract
AMR: productivity gains, small improvements to some sections of the contract.

JULY 22, 2011

APA result: No contractual changes
AMR result: No pilot cost increases.

That's 5 years of negotiation. Did AMR's strategy work? Did APA's strategy work? What has the APA "fought through"?

Delta and NWA pilots negotiated during this same time frame. The results have been different. Hawaiian, AirTran, Alaska, and Spirit have negotiated during this time period. Spirit was even released to strike. What were the results?

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1026860)

Not our problem. It's MANAGEMENT's job to make the airline money. It's our job to fly airplanes, & it's their job to manage the airline. They can pay us more, they just don't want to because then they have to find other suckers to push around.

Wake up people! :mad:

Bingo-why they make the big bucks. Bag fees, snack fees, fees for TV, credit card revenues, change fees-ALL of which SWA doesn't benefit from.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddogmax (Post 1026881)

Not trying to pick a fight, but I would be surprised if the avg 330 pilot flew more than 75 hrs. per month.

What I used was pay hours, not block hours. 85 hours was a pretty good number (includes premium pay, vacation, training, etc.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon (Post 1026749)

Enough with the DPA/DALPA turfwar! Let's talk about the slot swap and maybe the return of the NFL! Oh yeah, to sum it up let's try this:

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._6010151_n.jpg

Make her 20 and give her a green top and she looks like the girls that sell ice-cream in CHS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy (Post 1026777)

I don't believe you.

That's fine if you don't. All you have to do is call him up and ask him what he expects out of our next contract. He'll tell you the same. Let us know what he says.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whidbey (Post 1026872)

Consider if you will, American just nuked their Section 1 with their feeder, Eagle. Now American will enjoy competitive bidding on the operation of American's small jet fleet (airplanes will be held by AA :rolleyes:) That is step one in following the model established at United, Delta, Northwest and US Air.

The cost savings will result in the APA being under pressure & in a situation where it can capitalize on outsourcing.

Lets see if the APA's "more reasonable" approach includes a scope sale. I've got a dollar that says it does.

Regardless, AMR looks to me like they are positioning for bankruptcy. Since the pilots' working agreement will be opened anyway, I'd think it better to hold the high ground until things clear up and AMR's future path is better known.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whidbey (Post 1026872)

In my book, the ability of APA and the American pilots to fight through this delay is to be applauded. It was (IMHO) probably necessary to achieve the best possible outcome.

Couldn't agree more.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by caddis (Post 1026816)

Not sure which rep he was talking about but the MSP LEC rep has said this publicly multiple times. The latest event was during the week they spent in the MSP check in area. In fact he stated asking for more then 10% initially and 20% over the life of the contract will put the company back in bankruptcy.

PG there is a reason that more pilots are buying donuts these days.

Correct. Really nice guy, but had his expectations pretty low when I talked with him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1026877)

The force moves in mysterious ways young Luke Skywalker ...

Would you be surprised if this afternoon the Company announced another fee for departure agreement to happen at some point in the future ranging up to say, 130 seats ... while simultaneously the Delta MEC announces a grievance settlement resolving the Republic Single Carrier issue ... something about Section 1B40 wasn't really enforceable and we'd have lost if we tried ... but hey, we all got a 5% mid contract raise and nobody will get furloughed ... .

I would not be surprised.

It'd be amazing though if that or if the TA was a 10% increase initially and COLA because talk about raising the bar!!! I guess some people believe we should aim for SWA / 2!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1026840)

You're making a fool out of yourself alfa, really. There is no legal precedent to redo an SLI once that SLI has been accepted by management AND THE OPERATIONS HAVE BEEN COMBINED. None. If you can find such legal precedent, POST IT!

The United scab situation did not even involve an SLI. The only reason the Nic award can be fought now is because it was never IMPLEMENTED AT A COMBINED OPERATION. None of your posts above pertain to Delta Air Lines because our management agreed to the SLI and our operations are now COMBINED.

The DPA's website (vetted by DPA's attorney) is 100% correct. Our SLI is unchangeable.

Carl

Wrong Carl. A seniority list is always negotiable, but it is difficult to do. US Airways management has accepted the Nicolau award and their status is EXACTLY what our status is. You state that their seniority list is in some different status because it hasn't been used in combined operations. Wrong. The list is done, it is final, just because it hasn't been used in combined operations is completely immaterial. By the way, the courts agree with me. If USAPA is free to alter their list because it hasn't been used, then why are they negotiating with management to change the seniority list? Why would management have a say? It's because seniority lives in the contract and just like compensation or crew meals, you have to negotiate with management to change it. Our list has been accepted and is also subject to negotiation. It is very difficult to do because of the zero sum game nature of these negotiations. Do you get it now?

You are wrong, 5 federal judges in 3 different courts say you are wrong. No matter how many times you repeat this foolishness, it doesn't make it right. Seniority is Section 20 in our contract, it can be renegotiated at any time. Why don't you do some research before you make statements that have no basis in fact? Go read the Addington transcripts, read the Ninth Circuit appeal filings, and read the filings in the Declaratory Judgement that US Air management filed. You might learn something and be able to speak about this issue with some basis in fact. Now, you just make things up and bluster about trying to hide your ignorance of the facts.