Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-01-2011, 12:40 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 77
Contract Rant
OK, I realize pay, work rules, sick leave are all important, but for the upcoming contract survey, my number 1 thru 10 priority is scope. Consider this:
- You used to be able to fly on Delta metal to Recife, Fortaleze, and Manaus in Brazil, now you can go there via codeshare with Gol
- You used to be able to fly daily (summer season) from ATL to Puerto Vallarta, now it is Sat only other wise code share with Aero Mexico
- After the summer draw down you can get to TXL, ARG, CPH, MAN, SNN, PSA, AGP, VLC, BUD and one more I forget! via our JV partners. Not to mention EDI, OTP, AMM, CAI.
- you used to be able to fly to Ho Chi Minh, Vietnam on us, now it is Vietnam Airlines.
- you used to be able to fly LAX to GRU non stop on us, Now you can fly on Korean Air, MWF. How this is legal is beyond me but you can.
This is the RJ playbook but with top end flying pure and simple. Wish we could stop it, but according to my union rep, the company is in compliance with our contract. In that case, our contract sucks.
fish
- You used to be able to fly on Delta metal to Recife, Fortaleze, and Manaus in Brazil, now you can go there via codeshare with Gol
- You used to be able to fly daily (summer season) from ATL to Puerto Vallarta, now it is Sat only other wise code share with Aero Mexico
- After the summer draw down you can get to TXL, ARG, CPH, MAN, SNN, PSA, AGP, VLC, BUD and one more I forget! via our JV partners. Not to mention EDI, OTP, AMM, CAI.
- you used to be able to fly to Ho Chi Minh, Vietnam on us, now it is Vietnam Airlines.
- you used to be able to fly LAX to GRU non stop on us, Now you can fly on Korean Air, MWF. How this is legal is beyond me but you can.
This is the RJ playbook but with top end flying pure and simple. Wish we could stop it, but according to my union rep, the company is in compliance with our contract. In that case, our contract sucks.
fish
08-01-2011, 12:54 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,839
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
So if Nu is right on the 70/30 number at FL, that 70 pretty much would be all of the Captains and AirTran new hires. The 30 would be mostly FOs.
Without considering the mood of FL pilots I could see that happening just on the basis of what's being offered. But I think all pilots at FL need to ask, would they get a better deal in arbitration?
I say yes, better SLI and the same pay. This is a messy situation brewing either way bit stand for your own. For SWA pilots, yeah they make $50K more than us but you know they wish we were still C2K right now because they could demand a large raise, but given where they sit there probably isn't room for a raise that would be significant to offset what SWA see as unfair.
I'm surprised SWA doesn't placate it's pilots with $$ bonus to sign off on a less onerous SLI.
I don't think this passes. AirTran pilots IMHO will vote no.
Without considering the mood of FL pilots I could see that happening just on the basis of what's being offered. But I think all pilots at FL need to ask, would they get a better deal in arbitration?
I say yes, better SLI and the same pay. This is a messy situation brewing either way bit stand for your own. For SWA pilots, yeah they make $50K more than us but you know they wish we were still C2K right now because they could demand a large raise, but given where they sit there probably isn't room for a raise that would be significant to offset what SWA see as unfair.
I'm surprised SWA doesn't placate it's pilots with $$ bonus to sign off on a less onerous SLI.
I don't think this passes. AirTran pilots IMHO will vote no.
From what I've seen of the Tranny group is that they're a pretty pragmatic group...at least in the short term.
The senior half and junior 10 percent see the gold on the SWA side, the QoL if they stick in ATL, and the reportedly penny-ante nature of their management, and are looking for a quick fix.
A couple years from now, when direct deposit money is spent before it hits their account, the the permanentcy of the situation will start to dawn on them and it will REALLY start to fester.
But unlike most other SLIs, they will have no one to blame but themselves. It's still a big poo sandwich, though.
Nu
08-01-2011, 01:03 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by NuGuy
Heyas FTB,
From what I've seen of the Tranny group is that they're a pretty pragmatic group...at least in the short term.
The senior half and junior 10 percent see the gold on the SWA side, the QoL if they stick in ATL, and the rather penny-ante nature of their management, and are looking for a quick fix.
A couple years from now, when direct deposit money is spent before it hits their account, the the permanentcy of the situation will start to dawn on them and it will REALLY start to fester.
But unlike most other SLIs, they will have no one to blame but themselves. It's still a big poo sandwich, though.
Nu
From what I've seen of the Tranny group is that they're a pretty pragmatic group...at least in the short term.
The senior half and junior 10 percent see the gold on the SWA side, the QoL if they stick in ATL, and the rather penny-ante nature of their management, and are looking for a quick fix.
A couple years from now, when direct deposit money is spent before it hits their account, the the permanentcy of the situation will start to dawn on them and it will REALLY start to fester.
But unlike most other SLIs, they will have no one to blame but themselves. It's still a big poo sandwich, though.
Nu
08-01-2011, 01:37 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Originally Posted by tsquare
So if this goes down the way it is looking like, what would be the incentive for anybody else to join ALPA? If you have to be a plankholder to garner the protections that the genius lawyers can get for you, why pony up the dues and put up with the bull**** when you can write a check and use ALPA as a consultation (like APA is currently doing)? If I am... say UPS.. (not that they would join, but for example...) and I see ATI get burned while ALPA fiddles, why would I join? The reverse of this is true. If a smaller carrier within ALPA watches ATI get burned.. why should they hang around when they might be able to find better representation elsewhere? This is thin ice for Herndon IMHO, and they'd best not blow it.
I am sorry, but this Airtran deal only demonstrates to a carrier like Jet Blue exactly why they should join ALPA. Right now, Jet Blue is in worse shape than Airtran. They have virtually no protections. Sure there are the Bond/McKasckill laws, but they only apply when the companies actually merge. Doesn't say anything about buying the company and letting it die on the vine while you take all their assets.
This is almost unbelievable that an independent union blows it for their pilots and some conclude that an independent union is the answer. Hey, I got a plan, the New England Patriots should copy the management structure of the Cincinnati Bengals, that has been working out so well lately let's emulate that team that loses.
08-01-2011, 01:48 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Originally Posted by scambo1
First let me say, I'm not real quick with the criticism. I have been uncritical for much of my DAL life. However, the distrust/mistrust has brewed over time and I have come to the conclusion that ALPA national serves no real purpose.
That said, you ask me what I would do if I was ALPA, maybe ALPA president, not scambo the DAL pogue? I would unearth and unleash every possible legal angle to protect the AT pilots from being screwed contrary to the legal precedent.
I would also prepare all of my unions strike preparedness committees for a national SOS. That should get the attention of a few of the "boards" in DC.
Oh harumph, we cant do a national SOS. It wouldnt be prudent.
Until our union realizes it has to use ALL the tools in its chest (including the dynamite) it will not be powerful and will instead be the weak castrated gimp that it is.
"SWAPA colluded with management." Prove that in court and you solved the whole issue.
That said, you ask me what I would do if I was ALPA, maybe ALPA president, not scambo the DAL pogue? I would unearth and unleash every possible legal angle to protect the AT pilots from being screwed contrary to the legal precedent.
I would also prepare all of my unions strike preparedness committees for a national SOS. That should get the attention of a few of the "boards" in DC.
Oh harumph, we cant do a national SOS. It wouldnt be prudent.
Until our union realizes it has to use ALL the tools in its chest (including the dynamite) it will not be powerful and will instead be the weak castrated gimp that it is.
"SWAPA colluded with management." Prove that in court and you solved the whole issue.
So now we play the SOS card. Explain to me how conducting an SOS is any different than robbing a bank. As long as we are violating the law, we might as well go where all the money is.
I don't have to prove that SWAPA colluded with management. They have every right to collude with their management, what would we go to court for? Neither SWA management nor SWAPA have any duty to the Airtran pilots therefore they are free to collude to their hearts content.
Check out Guadalupe Holdings and tell me what you find out. Then come back with a real answer. You have a lot of anger but not a lot of plans.
08-01-2011, 01:55 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
Commercial break.....
Biscoff cookies now available in a creamy spread. 
Creamy Spread from Biscoff Cookies - Belgian Speculoos Biscuit
That is all.
Creamy Spread from Biscoff Cookies - Belgian Speculoos Biscuit
That is all.
08-01-2011, 02:31 PM
ATL A320 B
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: No longer MEM or 9, but still a guy.
Posts: 238
Originally Posted by Razorback flyer
Possible: Open 320 NYC. Obviously in play with the slot swap going through. Again, probably small at first if it happens, and I would imagine it would be funded through displacements in MSP, DTW, and possibly MEM. (one could even feasibly make the argument that the MEM 320 catgegory is very high credit time
) I think they would probably pick one between this and the 73N DTW for the fall bid.Flight ops is being told to try and correct the problems that marketing has created. The easy fix is to run the aircraft type in each market more than once a day. This could be fixed without disrupting a bunch of peoples lives with displacements and rebasing...
08-01-2011, 02:57 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by Mem9guy
The reason that Memphis is high credit time seems to me to have very little to do with basing. We are being built rotations with a lot of 33+ hour layovers in the middle. This makes the rotation inefficient on a daily credit basis and gives it a high amount of trip hour credit. This is not a basing issue, it is a marketing issue. Marketing is so obsesed with pushing for 100% load factors that they shuffle the aircraft type around all day. We are being flown into cities that only have A320's once a day, the last flight in and the first flight out. When the layover crew the night before is not legal to take the flight out in the morning, you create the need for a long layover or a deadhead the next day to get the crew back in the system. It does not matter where the crew is based, it is an outstation equiptment choice issue.
Flight ops is being told to try and correct the problems that marketing has created. The easy fix is to run the aircraft type in each market more than once a day. This could be fixed without disrupting a bunch of peoples lives with displacements and rebasing...
Flight ops is being told to try and correct the problems that marketing has created. The easy fix is to run the aircraft type in each market more than once a day. This could be fixed without disrupting a bunch of peoples lives with displacements and rebasing...
As much as most of us hate deadheads... instead of having all the 30 hr layovers that we see, a mid day deadhead in or out would alleviate that and allow us to be more productive.
I'm not sure who does the rotation construction, but building all of these 30 hr layovers is not our fault and very unproductive. I won't complain about the 30 hour CHS ones, though.
08-01-2011, 03:03 PM
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
Originally Posted by Columbia
Biscoff cookies now available in a creamy spread.
Creamy Spread from Biscoff Cookies - Belgian Speculoos Biscuit
That is all.
Creamy Spread from Biscoff Cookies - Belgian Speculoos Biscuit
That is all.
08-01-2011, 03:48 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 7ERB
Posts: 2,039
Originally Posted by columbia
biscoff cookies now available in a creamy spread.
creamy spread from biscoff cookies - belgian speculoos biscuit
that is all.
creamy spread from biscoff cookies - belgian speculoos biscuit
that is all.
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