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iceman49 08-02-2011 06:46 PM

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jayray2 08-02-2011 06:47 PM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1033084)
These types of awards happen all the time. Juries get out of control and award millions to people who order hot coffee and then try and drive and spill it. You hear about the huge awards. The reductions in the awards to pennies on the dollar that occur by judges later on don't make the news.

Yes, it is called mandated caps and it is part of the tort reform battle cry. It is not a good thing for you or me. It is all about money and who controls our government and our judicial system. If you have HBO or get a chance in a hotel on a layover this is a great documentary:


HBO: Hot Coffee: Home

And the old lady that spilled coffee was not driving, she was parked. She had large third degree burns on her legs and almost died. McDonalds refused to even help pay the medical bills, at the time they had hundreds of complaints of their coffee cups and the their coffee being excessively hot. You only hear the story about out of control juries and money hungry victims because that is how the tort reformist, big business (Chamber of Commerce) and media spin the story.

Columbia 08-02-2011 06:51 PM


Originally Posted by jayray2 (Post 1033127)
Yes, it is called tort reform and it is not a good thing for you or me. It is all about money and who controls our government. If you have HBO or get a chance in a hotel on a layover this is a great documentary:

HBO: Hot Coffee: Home

And the old lady that spilled coffee was not driving, she was parked. She had large third degree burns on her legs and almost died. McDonalds refused to even help pay the medical bills, at the time they had hundreds of complaints of their coffee cups and the their coffee being excessively hot. You only hear the story about out of control juries and money hungry victims because that is how the tort reformist, big business and media spin the story.

So, if someone is stupid enough to dump hot coffee of their legs, they should sue for millions? Where do the lawsuits end?

Bill Lumberg 08-02-2011 07:04 PM


Originally Posted by Columbia (Post 1033125)
"Yes, but $217 an hour times 105/month equals $275K/year (with 18 days off). How about an 80% pay raise?"

And any open time they pick up on the open board is at 150%, inverse assignments are 200%. Holiday pay is 150% also. But, we aren't good enough to get that (other than inverse assignment pay), and Airtran pilots are. Ask your LEC reps, I bet they will shake their collective heads, and blame high oil and the NLRB.

acl65pilot 08-02-2011 07:10 PM

Anyone else hearing that AMR is close to a deal with APA?

Bill Lumberg 08-02-2011 07:10 PM


Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1033063)
Windfall? Really?

Not a pay windfall? I agree the terms of the SLI from SWAPA are suspect at best, but I have a feeling most of the Airtran pilots will vote for it, primarily because they will be winning the lottery monetarily. The 717 will pay more than our 764 and A330. You don't think that is a windfall? Are you related to Trump?

jayray2 08-02-2011 07:14 PM


Originally Posted by Columbia (Post 1033131)
So, if someone is stupid enough to dump hot coffee of their legs, they should sue for millions? Where do the lawsuits end?

Well, all she wanted was $20,000 (to cover her long hospital stay and surgeries) but McDonald's refused. It has nothing to do with being stupid, it was an accident and McDonald's at the time had hundreds of complaints of people burning themselves because their coffee was too hot. They immediately lowered the temperature of their coffee after this case hit the news. Yes our society might be a bit over litigious but if you make a product and it hurts someone it is not hard to convince a jury that the maker of said product carries some liability. The McDonald's case was legitimate, it was not just some money hungry lady looking for a hand out and this idea that tort reform will make society a better and more efficient entity is just not true. Tort reform takes away your rights as an individual of this country and mandated caps take away the power of juries to award fair decisions. If these TWA pilots are awarded their true damages and then a judge comes in and slashes it by 75% it will be a travesty.

Bill Lumberg 08-02-2011 07:21 PM


Originally Posted by fartboxflyer (Post 1033099)
Agreed 100% but the turd in this punch bowl is within Sec 6 neg. rules.

"good faith" is a slippery slope, and the the NMB have "parked" regional pilots recently trying to grab an extra crumb off the floor. We can't ask for the moon any more than the company can ask for our hourly rates be minimum wage.
what is "good faith"? That is a moving, ill defined target. Only the NMB will determine who is getting out of line based upon many factors that economically and politically are years out.
The NMB historically could give a rats ass what we had in C2k. They have a short term memory and tend to be myopic even during the present. Ask for too much in their eyes and they will park negotiations 6 month faster than the speed of heat.
This being said we still should demand and open for every cent that brings us to that edge and carry this fine line throughout the sec 6 process.

I have heard grumblings about this, that the new APA MEC Chair asked for too much and was parked for awhile until he became more "realistic." Of course AMR hasn't been financially very stable lately, and every union there is up for a new contract. Asking for a raise when you are consistantly lacking profitable quarters is one thing, ( profits are subjective too sometimes) but that doesn't mean that Dalpa would be parked, and it doesn't mean Dalpa has to "shoot low" of some imaginary line to hope to get this done faster. Shooting low or having lower expectations only helps the other side, and can leave "earned" money on the table. I hope that doesn't happen with us. I want someone who will PROMOTE us for what we are worth, and compare us to our real peers, not bottom contract dwellers.

TheManager 08-02-2011 07:45 PM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1033084)
The insurance company will make the final decision on when to settle. It wont have a major economic impact on ALPA.

Pretty bold statement to stand on there sailing.

Want to bet your life on it?

OK. I'll be realistic. How about your 401K?

Not very many in ALPA presently will agree to bail ALPA out of this mess if there is an assessment to cover what insurance won't/can't pick up.

Game over in that scenario.

forgot to bid 08-02-2011 08:08 PM


Originally Posted by jayray2 (Post 1033147)
Well, all she wanted was $20,000 (to cover her long hospital stay and surgeries) but McDonald's refused. It has nothing to do with being stupid, it was an accident and McDonald's at the time had hundreds of complaints of people burning themselves because their coffee was too hot. They immediately lowered the temperature of their coffee after this case hit the news. Yes our society might be a bit over litigious but if you make a product and it hurts someone it is not hard to convince a jury that the maker of said product carries some liability. The McDonald's case was legitimate, it was not just some money hungry lady looking for a hand out and this idea that tort reform will make society a better and more efficient entity is just not true. Tort reform takes away your rights as an individual of this country and mandated caps take away the power of juries to award fair decisions. If these TWA pilots are awarded their true damages and then a judge comes in and slashes it by 75% it will be a travesty.

Years ago when this woman won her case I was, as a anti trial lawyer pro business conservative, outraged. Mainly because the story was framed as something like winning millions from Disney because you were stung by a bee at Disney world. Oddly by left media sources framed it this way and I think they did it because it created a tizzy and they live off that.

But when I took a business law class and we went over this case, it made sense why she won and won so much. It really isn't what people think.

Obviously, that's 1 case. Back in the day when a pilot runs out of gas in his twenty year old twin cessna and instead of gliding down he manages to spin it into the ground and his family sues and wins millions from Cessna, yeah, total %@#%@!#%#%.

I think Trial Lawyers are by and large disgusting. But this TWA case, pilots are owed money and if it costs $1.4 billion then it costs $1.4 billion. More power to them.


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