Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-13-2011 | 04:19 PM
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From: A-320A
I agree with the first part. I think the main reason LCC wants the swap is to pave the way for a merger (or maybe a fragmentation?). But as far as we are concerned, what could we possibly want from them after the slot swap? Maybe a few 330's? A route here and there? But we are pulling down Atlantic flying fast and furiously so how can that be it? We've never seemed to care a whole lot about PHX or LAS beyond our current levels and I'm not seeing much value in anything else they could offer, in whole or in part.
-Terminal in JFK
-330 orders and possibly their 330's they currently fly.
-Route Authorities our of MIA that AMR would opt to shift to CLT.
That assumes AMR is the one in the drivers seat. If LCC is, DFW comes in to play and would be a real asset for DAL. MIA would be pulled down more than necessary to protect CLT. AMR has a cash issue and does not need someone like DAL coming to the bidding war to drive up the price. Doing so would put Parker and LCC in the control seat. For us to not do that, I would assume our "fair offers" for certain assets would be given the fullest consideration.
PHX makes little sense because LUV has the S-curve benefit wrt to their revenue potential. For that fact, I see AMR wanting to divest PHX to someone like LUV along with what they would divest to us. There really is not much that would help UCAL out of the tie up.
09-13-2011 | 04:22 PM
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From: A-320A
But B6 is terminal 5. Terminal 6 needs to to be rebuilt or massively renovated and isn't that big anyway. Why would we blow over a billion on terminal 4, remove instead of renovate terminal 3 just so we can have some insanely large alleyway, and then move into terminal 5, which is an average sized terminal pretty much good for narrowbody planes only? The aerial view of terminal 5 would make a pretty Delta sign though with its triangle shape and all. That might be worth a billion or two for an otherwise gate neutral experiment.
B6 may have brought something to the table before we invested over a billion and broke ground in terminal 4, but right now it seems like a really convoluted way to end up with the same number of gates in a narrowbody terminal and we'd obviously have to give something up, like 2 and/or 3, which I guess we could give to B6 in a swap but we'd have to renovate 3 first. That strategy reminds me of that scene in "The Jerk" when Steve Martin's family tore down their house and built an identical one.
B6 may have brought something to the table before we invested over a billion and broke ground in terminal 4, but right now it seems like a really convoluted way to end up with the same number of gates in a narrowbody terminal and we'd obviously have to give something up, like 2 and/or 3, which I guess we could give to B6 in a swap but we'd have to renovate 3 first. That strategy reminds me of that scene in "The Jerk" when Steve Martin's family tore down their house and built an identical one.
Sorry about the T-5 mix up. I get them all confused at times. I am referring to the two AMR terminals there and the fact that the B6 terminal is not convenient to use for a combined op. They could do it, but it would be more problematic for them than for us.
Tearing down T-3 was necessary because of the building materials and ease of access issues.
Last edited by acl65pilot; 09-13-2011 at 06:11 PM.
09-13-2011 | 04:25 PM
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From: A-320A
So what does this do to Bombardier C-Series program as well as Embraer's E190 program to have Delta come out and say basically we're not ordering anything new for years?
I also guess no B777s or 748s? Or more 737s?
I think this kind of points to the 717 more than it does getting the E190 or small C-Series over at DCI. It'd be super clear if we just ever heard the words "we will not have any increase in the size of DCI jets or fleets." It really makes you scratch your head not to see that articulated more clearly because anything less is to say we'll use it as a bargaining chip.
I also don't quite understand why we would sublease aircraft from someone who was leasing it? Why have Delta pilots fly Skywest airplanes. Money has to come from DAL to pay Skywest to pay those leases. I guess I just don't get how that scheme would be advantageous over subleasing them from Wells Fargo or whomever it is directly. Not to mention we're saying we're going to buy 100 739s in cash if I'm not mistaken.
I also guess no B777s or 748s? Or more 737s?
I think this kind of points to the 717 more than it does getting the E190 or small C-Series over at DCI. It'd be super clear if we just ever heard the words "we will not have any increase in the size of DCI jets or fleets." It really makes you scratch your head not to see that articulated more clearly because anything less is to say we'll use it as a bargaining chip.
I also don't quite understand why we would sublease aircraft from someone who was leasing it? Why have Delta pilots fly Skywest airplanes. Money has to come from DAL to pay Skywest to pay those leases. I guess I just don't get how that scheme would be advantageous over subleasing them from Wells Fargo or whomever it is directly. Not to mention we're saying we're going to buy 100 739s in cash if I'm not mistaken.
SKW gets the best rates possible for their purchases, and the payment becomes an operating expense for DAL, not a debt payment. Moving that debt off of DAL debt ledger is by far the biggest savings they get in terms of total debt service whether it is rationalized on our balance sheet or not. Less Debt on our ledger is good for DAL even if they are paying more in the form of cash flow payments for the operational expense of having the debt held outside of the corporation known as Delta Air Lines, Inc.
09-13-2011 | 04:38 PM
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From: Left, left, left right left....
Here is the news. Today was Delta's briefing to the Deutsche Bank AG conference. Just as ACL said.it still seems like objective signs that scope negotiations are in play for the 100 seat jet. The dots are:
Hopefully Sailing or Slow will be along soon to tell us that I'm full of crap and the cuts are RJ's, (which I am sure is partly true).
Hopefully Sailing or Slow will be along soon to tell us that I'm full of crap and the cuts are RJ's, (which I am sure is partly true).
09-13-2011 | 04:59 PM
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From: A-320A
We are done talking with the airframers for now, including "Bombardier and Embraer."
That could mean they have found an alternate aircraft, or that they have come to a deal with one of these two and further talks are not needed. It really is a very open ended statement. One could say it is a statement that a lawyer would make!
Last edited by acl65pilot; 09-13-2011 at 06:12 PM.
09-13-2011 | 05:26 PM
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From: Light Chop
I think it'd get a poor grade from an information architecture point of view. Nothing personal to anyone, it's just not that great.
09-13-2011 | 05:28 PM
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From: Light Chop
Maybe, but for fun lets read in to the comments RA made today at the investor call.
We are done talking with the airframers for now, including "Bombardier and Embraer."
That could mean they have found an alternate aircraft, or that they have come to a deal with one of these two and further talks are not needed. It really is a very open ended statement. One could say it is a statement that a lawyer would make!
We are done talking with the airframers for now, including "Bombardier and Embraer."
That could mean they have found an alternate aircraft, or that they have come to a deal with one of these two and further talks are not needed. It really is a very open ended statement. One could say it is a statement that a lawyer would make!
09-13-2011 | 05:59 PM
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From: A-320A
FtB;
I highlighted the quote.
I highlighted the quote.
09-13-2011 | 06:28 PM
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From: 747-400 Captain
I honestly still don't get the howblowzit or more commonly referred to on the 88 as the subject in the question "where's the paper work?"
I think it'd get a poor grade from an information architecture point of view. Nothing personal to anyone, it's just not that great.
I think it'd get a poor grade from an information architecture point of view. Nothing personal to anyone, it's just not that great.
We'll never make it an industry leading contract in every area if we still hang on to this belief that our contract is somehow not that bad.
Carl
09-13-2011 | 06:36 PM
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From: Light Chop
ACL, I know what you're saying but I read elsewhere (and it was repeated second hand) no new aircraft orders for years.
I think the door just got shut on the C-Series, E190 and anything B&A want to throw out there.
I think the door just got shut on the C-Series, E190 and anything B&A want to throw out there.
Delta spending delays dash Bombardier hopes
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
Published Tuesday, Sep. 13, 2011 7:40PM EDT
Last updated Tuesday, Sep. 13, 2011 7:52PM EDT
Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL-N7.990.618.27%) is delaying an order for new narrow-bodied aircraft for several years, dashing hopes that Bombardier Inc. (BBD.B-T4.260.030.71%) is about to land the biggest order yet for its new C Series airplane.
The Atlanta-based airline announced three weeks ago that it will buy 100 Boeing Co. 737 planes and was believed to be set to follow that up with the purchase of 100 smaller narrow-bodied planes later this year or next year.
“We are done talking about aircraft for the near to medium term,” Ed Bastian, Delta’s president, said on Tuesday. “There’s no second step of aircraft [purchases], whether it be with Bombardier or Embraer or Boeing or Airbus.”
Montreal-based Bombardier and Embraer SA of Brazil were believed to be the two contenders for an order for planes that would seat between 100 and 150 passengers in a deal that would almost double the number of orders for the C Series.
Airlines have ordered 133 C Series planes, which represent Bombardier’s $3.4-billion bet that it can compete in the biggest segment of the commercial airplane market and challenge the duopoly Boeing and Airbus SAS have enjoyed for decades.
The delay of several years in replacing some DC-9 airplanes that have been in service for 33 years is another sign of growing concern among U.S. companies about the health of the U.S. and global economies.
“This was about Delta, not about the airplanes,” said industry analyst Scott Hamilton, a principal at consulting firm Leeham Co. LLC. Bombardier went more than a year without landing orders for the C Series before several airlines signed on around the Paris Air Show in June.
“The declining U.S. economy in particular, the softening global economy and the narrowing of profits in 2011 versus 2010 caused Delta to pull back from the 100-150 seat airplane order for now,” Mr. Hamiton said. Delta did not want to place an order now that would have included down payments, progress payments as the planes were being built and additional debt on its balance sheet, he said.
The order for Boeing planes is worth about $8.5-billion (U.S.), while an order for 100 C Series planes would have been worth about $6-billion at list prices.
Delta needs to reduce the $13.8-billion on its balance sheet and the risk that brings to the company, Mr. Bastian told a Deutsche Bank AG transportation conference in New York on Tuesday.
The plan, he said, is to maintain annual capital expenditures in the $1.2-billion to $1.4-billion range to 2014. Delta’s capital expenditure hit $2.2-billion in 2008, but fell to $1.3-billion in 2009 and is expected to be $1.2-billion this year.
In addition to delaying airplane purchases, Delta will trim fourth-quarter flights by between 4 and 5 per cent, Mr. Bastian said, and by 2 to 3 per cent next year.
The number of transatlantic flights will be cut by at least 10 per cent in the fourth quarter, he noted.
Dallas-based American Airlines, a unit of AMR Corp., said it will cut capacity in the fourth quarter while United Continental Holdings Inc. said it will hold its 2012 flight levels steady at 2011 levels.
The first flight of Bombardier’s C Series is scheduled next year and the first planes are scheduled to be delivered to customers in 2013.
The biggest single order is from Republic Airways Holdings Inc., which operates Frontier Airlines and other regional U.S. carriers. Republic has 40 of the planes on order and options for another 40, but also said during the Paris Air Show that it will order A319 planes from Airbus.
The A319 with more fuel-efficient engines competes directly with the C Series.
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
Published Tuesday, Sep. 13, 2011 7:40PM EDT
Last updated Tuesday, Sep. 13, 2011 7:52PM EDT
Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL-N7.990.618.27%) is delaying an order for new narrow-bodied aircraft for several years, dashing hopes that Bombardier Inc. (BBD.B-T4.260.030.71%) is about to land the biggest order yet for its new C Series airplane.
The Atlanta-based airline announced three weeks ago that it will buy 100 Boeing Co. 737 planes and was believed to be set to follow that up with the purchase of 100 smaller narrow-bodied planes later this year or next year.
“We are done talking about aircraft for the near to medium term,” Ed Bastian, Delta’s president, said on Tuesday. “There’s no second step of aircraft [purchases], whether it be with Bombardier or Embraer or Boeing or Airbus.”
Montreal-based Bombardier and Embraer SA of Brazil were believed to be the two contenders for an order for planes that would seat between 100 and 150 passengers in a deal that would almost double the number of orders for the C Series.
Airlines have ordered 133 C Series planes, which represent Bombardier’s $3.4-billion bet that it can compete in the biggest segment of the commercial airplane market and challenge the duopoly Boeing and Airbus SAS have enjoyed for decades.
The delay of several years in replacing some DC-9 airplanes that have been in service for 33 years is another sign of growing concern among U.S. companies about the health of the U.S. and global economies.
“This was about Delta, not about the airplanes,” said industry analyst Scott Hamilton, a principal at consulting firm Leeham Co. LLC. Bombardier went more than a year without landing orders for the C Series before several airlines signed on around the Paris Air Show in June.
“The declining U.S. economy in particular, the softening global economy and the narrowing of profits in 2011 versus 2010 caused Delta to pull back from the 100-150 seat airplane order for now,” Mr. Hamiton said. Delta did not want to place an order now that would have included down payments, progress payments as the planes were being built and additional debt on its balance sheet, he said.
The order for Boeing planes is worth about $8.5-billion (U.S.), while an order for 100 C Series planes would have been worth about $6-billion at list prices.
Delta needs to reduce the $13.8-billion on its balance sheet and the risk that brings to the company, Mr. Bastian told a Deutsche Bank AG transportation conference in New York on Tuesday.
The plan, he said, is to maintain annual capital expenditures in the $1.2-billion to $1.4-billion range to 2014. Delta’s capital expenditure hit $2.2-billion in 2008, but fell to $1.3-billion in 2009 and is expected to be $1.2-billion this year.
In addition to delaying airplane purchases, Delta will trim fourth-quarter flights by between 4 and 5 per cent, Mr. Bastian said, and by 2 to 3 per cent next year.
The number of transatlantic flights will be cut by at least 10 per cent in the fourth quarter, he noted.
Dallas-based American Airlines, a unit of AMR Corp., said it will cut capacity in the fourth quarter while United Continental Holdings Inc. said it will hold its 2012 flight levels steady at 2011 levels.
The first flight of Bombardier’s C Series is scheduled next year and the first planes are scheduled to be delivered to customers in 2013.
The biggest single order is from Republic Airways Holdings Inc., which operates Frontier Airlines and other regional U.S. carriers. Republic has 40 of the planes on order and options for another 40, but also said during the Paris Air Show that it will order A319 planes from Airbus.
The A319 with more fuel-efficient engines competes directly with the C Series.
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